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#8158 - 04/24/08 09:33 PM Re: Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along please! [Re: Meq]
97and107 Offline

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 280
Loc: New Mexico
Yeah I agree Mequa, but this is a matter of freedom, and you don't fuck with that in my arena.

We're not bonobos - I had thought of that ten years ago actually, that's nothing new - we're humans. We need to address this on human terms, in the now, and not based on what Greek civilization was doing thousands of years ago. The Greek empire is hardly a model that survived into the present day, is it?

Their "glories" lie in ruin and are paved over to make room for more Christian churches.

Here's an example of the kind of damage this does to our race, it's just one of millions of posts you can find online on various survivor support forums - this is a shell of a human being.

Hello Mr. (name omitted)

I'm not calling you Dad for a reason, and I'm not here today to wish you a Happy Fathers Day. In so many ways, I wish I was, but I'm not. I am here today for me, not for you.
I'm here today as part of this horrible process of trying to heal myself from all the problems you created in me as a result of the things you did to me and Larry when we were just children.
I want you to take a good look at me now. I want you to look at my life, and where I am and how I got here. Before you now stands the empty shell of a human being. Empty because you could not control your anger, or your perverted thoughts towards young boys.
I want you to look at the results of your actions. Sure, you saw much in Larry's behavior before you left this life. I'm sure you've seen much more since you've been gone. How proud are you of how you treated him after he told you he was gay? I can remember all your comments and cussing of queers, and homo's and I'm sure he can remember them as well. How does it feel to know that you were a Faggot, a Queer, and even worse, a child molester. You have no idea how much anger and hatred I have towards you and that is why I'm here today. To make sure that you know, that there can be no question about how what you did has, and still does effect me. While I can't speak for Larry, I'm sure that he would have much to add. I only wish he was here to do so, perhaps someday he will, if he hasn't already.
What were you thinking as you crept into our bedroom at night to fulfill your perverted urges? Did you think that because we were "asleep", that it wouldn't hurt anything. That you could do what ever you wanted without there being any effect on us? Or, did you just really not give a shit if it did effect us as long as you got the pleasure you were after by doing such perverted things to two very young boys. Your own flesh and blood? What was it that made you act on your own fucked up desires? I have to wonder if Pappy did the same things to you? Is that where you learned how to do it? Is that why you molested us? You were not enough of a man to resist the urges you had? I can't help but wonder.
You were such a tough queer though when it came to little boys weren't you. You had THE POWER to control, and intimidate, and scare the hell out of us and you were very good at using your POWER. And the yelling and cussing, and the beatings with your all too handy belt. Did that give you the same feeling that molesting us did, did you get off on it?
Just look at the way you have screwed me up. All the issues your uncontrolled urges left me with. I can't function with the woman I love because of you. She and I both hate you for that. She is the most wonderful woman in the world, and I have caused her so much pain because of what you did to me. The saddest thing of all is that her Father did the same thing to her, that you did to me. I hope you are both in a place to see how what you did is killing us from the inside out every day of our miserable lives.
I have so many questions for you that I know I will never get the answers to and even that makes me angry. It is as if you got away with murder. Yes murder!! Not the easy kind of murder, where I would be dead and have nothing left to feel or any more pain to endure. No, your murder was the more horrible type, the type that slowly kills me every day I'm alive, from the inside out. The kind that makes a normal life impossible. The kind of murder of a childs soul that should never be forgiven. Just the thought that you found God, and asked for his forgiveness, and that now you are in heaven pisses me off more than anything. If that is the case, then you got away with far more than anyone ever should have and if that's the case, and I end up there too, I hope you are good at hiding from me. I would love to beat the hell out you, I really would.
I was so scared of you. Your rage and constant verbal abuse made me live in fear of doing anything that made you mad. I'm not scared anymore. I'm not scared because you are gone, I'm not scared because I'm not a little boy anymore, and if you showed up here right now, I would still not be afraid of you, I'm as big as you were, and I'm much stronger than you were in more ways than one. You wouldn't last 30 seconds against me right now.
Although it wouldn't help me much, I would love to hear your excuses for what you did?
I would love to hear you explain why you did what you did. While it would not cure my hatred and anger, it might offer some insight that I will never have since you can't.
I hope that wherever you are, that you can be made to feel how much I suffer. I hope you can suffer right along with me, and with Larry, and God forbid, any other child who was unfortunate to be a victim of your fucked up actions. Did you molest Matt or Alicia? Was it as easy to get away with married to Roberta as it was married to my mother? How did you get away with sneaking out of bed at night to come molest us? Did you find other little boys to play with when you traveled each week? How many other lives did you destroy before you got your ticket out of this life anyway?
Where ever you are, I hope you know how badly you fucked us up. I hope you can suffer right along with us, though what ever amount you suffer could not compare with what we are suffering thanks to you

#8161 - 04/25/08 12:57 AM Re: Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along please! [Re: Meq]
ZephyrGirl Offline
active member

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
This is taken from the site

Note, this supports what I said about choice and rape.

The video was interesting enough if that monkey fucking kind of a way, but didn't really hold any facts or information about their society and rules or taboos they may actually hold. So I looked it up for us.

These animals do not rape each other and it is A MATRIARCAL SOCIETY.

So if this is to be our example, sure, it backs up what I've been saying perfectly I think.

Peaceful and powered by females

... In contrast to the competitive, male-dominated culture of their close relative the chimpanzee, bonobo society is peaceful, matriarchal and more egalitarian. Bonobos live in large groups where harmonious coexistence is the norm. While in many ways, males and females have "separate but equal" roles, females carry the highest rank, and the sons of ranking females are the leaders among males. Females form close bonds and alliances, which is another way they maintain their power among males, who are larger and stronger physically.

Like chimps, bonobo society is "male philopatric," meaning that the females migrate to other groups when they reach puberty. This eliminates the chance of incest and increases genetic diversity. However, the wild bonobo population is so fragmented now in the Congo, with small groups living in isolated pockets, that the sustainability of the species is severely threatened. It will be critical for us to establish protected areas and corridors to provide for genetic viability of the species. However, bonobos share a human landscape, and our work with indigenous Congolese people is an important aspect of bonobo conservation. Learn about BCI's programs to protect bonobos.

"Make Love, Not War"
Bonobos seem to ascribe to the 1960s hippie credo, "make love, not war." They make a lot of love, and do so in every conceivable fashion. Beyond that, they are very loving too, showing care and compassion for each other in many ways. Sex in bonobo society transcends reproduction, as it does in humans. It serves as a way of bonding, exchanging energy and sharing pleasure.

Bonobos have been described as "pansexual" by psychologist Frans de Waal. Sex permeates the fabric of bonobo society, weaving through all aspects of daily life. It serves an important function in keeping the society together, maintaining peaceful, cooperative relations. Besides heterosexual contact, both male and female bonobos engage in same-sex encounters, and even group sex occurs. Female-female contact, or "GG-rubbing," is actually the most common.
NOTE: This explains your attraction to them Kayla, LOL Unlike other apes, bonobos frequently copulate face-to-face, looking into each others eyes. When bonobo groups meet in the forest, they greet each other, bond sexually, and share food instead of fighting. Likewise, almost any conflict between bonobos is eased by sexual activity, grooming, or sharing food.

Like humans, bonobo females are sexually receptive throughout most of their estrus cycle. Chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes), on the other hand, only mate during the few days when a female is fertile. Generally, the ranking males in chimp society "get the girls." Male chimps make macho displays to impress females and can be quite vehement in their demands. Consequently, chimp females do not have much control over who they mate with. Bonobo males tend to be a bit more polite. They ask first, by displaying themselves in a persuasive but non-aggressive manner, offering food or making other propositions - and bonobo females have the right to refuse.

The sexual aspect of bonobo behavior is best understood in the context of bonobo culture. Sex does not necessarily mean the same thing to a bonobo that it does to a human. However, it raises compelling questions about the roots of human nature, and is particularly striking in contrast to chimpanzee society. Scholars continue to study this unique phenomenon and debate its implications.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.

#8164 - 04/25/08 07:01 AM Abuse and damage [Re: 97and107]
Meq Offline
active member

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
It was never in question how sexual abuse can and does produce real emotional harm in humans, particularly in a case such as this survivor.

However, from an empirical perspective, it makes sense to deal with each case on an individual basis, rather than making overgeneralisations based on value judgments. This is clearly one of the more harmful cases of child abuse (excluding cases where the child dies).

This boy's dad was clearly a rage-filled, power-crazed bully who (like many rapists) used sex as a tool of power and control, alongside beatings and verbal abuse. It looks like this boy suffered a lot of abuse at the hands of his (religiously fanatical) dad - emotional, sexual, and physical.

Unfortunately, his dad is dead, so any further desire for revenge cannot be realistically acted out against him personally (except as a psychodrama).
All a survivor can do in such a position is come to terms with his feelings, and channel them into constructive action along the healing process.
Very difficult.

As Nietzsche put it (in my reading of him), it is only the stronger individual who can 'turn his injury to his own advantage' so that 'what doesn't kill him makes him stronger'.
The majority of humans may well be unable to recover completely from such traumas, and end up as shells of their former selves.
This is ultimately not 'right' or 'wrong' (which are value judgments), it is just a fact of life.

#8166 - 04/25/08 11:26 AM Re: Abuse and damage [Re: Meq]
97and107 Offline

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 280
Loc: New Mexico
Yeah, well, I'm not going to bother trading in my overgeneralisations to accomodate the sexual needs of somebody else - I'm not a pedophile and I probably never will be.

And in the real world Mequa, I think you'll find that my opinion is far more popular, simply because it needs to be that way.

Zephyr, good points there...

#8168 - 04/25/08 12:46 PM Re: Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along ple [Re: ZephyrGirl]
active member

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
\:\) I didn't know GG Rubbing was most common... that is fascinating. To me two snails rubbing on each other is more representative of how we get things done... you know? *wink wink*

Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


#8169 - 04/25/08 01:32 PM Re: Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along ple [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Phillip Offline

Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
Well, certainly if your opinion is more popular, we should adopt it for ourselves. The herd is always right, you know...
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

#8184 - 04/26/08 08:35 AM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
Ringmaster Offline

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
sorry to come on to the topic late into the conversation been out in the field doing shit for the past few days.
Yes many people think it's wrong i do to but I guess we are not into the position to debate that because all right and wrong is, is a matter of opinion. However the children do need to stay in the governments costudy because of the treatment they got by this old yuppy fuck. IF i had kids i personally wouldn't want them to be having sex simply because of what was posted earlier about (mind you this is a paraphrase sorta) young teens not being able to make the wisest decisions. I almost had a kid at the age of 15, hurray for alcohol right? I wouldn't want my 13,14,fuck it 15-18 year old son or daughter telling me i'm going to be a grandparent.
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

#8231 - 04/27/08 07:24 PM Re: Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along please! [Re: Meq]
Stag Offline

Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 84
 Originally Posted By: Mequa
It's not exactly PC to cite evidence that pedophilia is to some extent natural (as proven by our Bonobo cousins)... just as organizations such as NAMBLA can and do cite such evidence in their promotion of pedophilia. To openly cite evidence against the PC norm (that it is totally unnatural and thus evil) is to gain association with the enemy.

Watch that naturalistic fallacy there, Mequa. Mother Nature's a bitch, and there's no reason for us to take our lead from Her. We're on our own out here, making up the rules as we go along -- for better or worse.

That aside, you seem to approaching this from a Utilitarian perspecive -- if nobody gets hurt (emotionally or otherwise), then what's the problem? Which rather serves to highlight some of the intristic weaknessess in Utilitarian ethics. More importantly in my opinion, is not what such an exploitative act does to the victim, by what it says about the perpretator.


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