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#7907 - 04/18/08 11:40 AM 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect...
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA


""By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 49 minutes ago

SAN ANGELO, Texas - After hours of lawyers popping up with similar objections and questions, a custody hearing for 416 children seized from a polygamist sect finally turned to whether they were abused: A child welfare worker said some women at the sect's ranch may have had children when they were minors, some as young as 13.


The testimony came late Thursday, the first day of a court hearing to determine whether the children, swept up in a raid on the ranch two weeks ago, will remain in state custody. Child welfare officials claim the children were abused or in imminent danger of abuse because the sect encourages girls younger than 18 to marry and have children.

Child welfare investigator Angie Voss testified that at least five girls who are younger than 18 are pregnant or have children. Voss said some of the women identified as adults with children may be juveniles, or may have had children when they were younger than 18.

Identifying children and parents has been difficult because members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have given different names and ages at various times, Voss said. The state has asked that DNA be taken from all of the children and their alleged parents to help determine biological connections. The judge has not ruled on that request...""

Read the rest here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080418/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

I just have a question - Is it right for them to do this with under aged girls because it's their religious beliefs and the girls may have been willing? Or are these people perverse. I would say perverse, because, grown men and 13 year olds getting married and having babies for god just isn't right?

Kayla
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Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#7927 - 04/18/08 08:04 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
The leader of the organization is in jail for life for aiding in the repeated rape of a 14 year old girl.

The children are born into it. They don't know any better.
Their mothers know better, and the men know better.
They just choose not to care. For the mothers, Its a matter of closing their eyes and accepting it.
For the men, well, its a sence of power, control, and sexual accomplishment.

You trap the woman with the kids, then trap the kids with their own kids, a repeated abuse cycle. They grow acustomed to the life and accept it as all there is, because that is all they are taught.

Come on, how many 13, 14, or 15 years olds would willingly marry a 56 year old man or older?

God only comes into it as an excuse to do what they they want.

Morg
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#7931 - 04/18/08 08:22 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Morgan]
Boogs Offline
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Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 17
Loc: California North
God comes in as a cover so no one gets curious as to whats going on inside. Also develops wealth through tax relief to fund their sick little settlement. Only if that would be acceptable to put the men out of their misery
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Boogies in the night coming for you in your sleep

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#8030 - 04/20/08 08:33 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
The polygamist "leaders", ie. the older men, drive out the younger boys that are raised in the community when they reach adulthood, so as not to pose any competition to the older men who have dozens and dozens of wives. True law enforcement in predominantly polygamist towns is nearly impossible, as the local sheriffs and police usually have close ties or are being paid under the table to look the other way. They are also the first contacted when the young girls attempt to run away, who are rounded up before they get outside of the city limits and brought back to their sad, abusive lives. If they DO manage to escape, they generally end up as prostitutes or earning a low-wage salary working at a diner or hotel doing housekeeping. I'm surprised more don't commit suicide.
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#8097 - 04/22/08 03:33 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Nemesis]
Phillip Offline
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Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
We as a society have accepted the idea that teenage kids want to get laid--that's why sex ed classes are "safe sex" instead of "abstinence".

How are unwed teen mothers more acceptable than married teenage mothers? And, as long as the way those people live doesn't affect our lives, who are we to say shit about it?

Seems like we could learn a lot from these folks...
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8101 - 04/22/08 06:21 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
I remember being a horny teenage girl. I don't remember wanting to fuck my Grampa's friends or Dad's friends for that matter.

I personally don't think young girls are capable of making the best decision for themselves about being ready to have sex and that is why the laws against sex before about 16 (and there's still plenty that make stupid decisions then) are good and should be enforced.

Any man over about 18 that has sex with a girl under 16, even under the pretense of marriage should be arrested, as far as I'm concerned.

I also have an 11 year old daughter, that shared with me that she kissed her first boy the other night (on the cheek, awww cute) and whilst she has been menstruating for over a year now, has not mentally caught up to her physicality.

Honestly, I wouldn't want to see her having sex, or worse, being forced to get married and have sex with some old man, just because physically she is pretty much a women. Sex ed is about information. It's not a green light that says, go forth and fuck to 12 and 13 year olds.

I personally don't find unwed teen mothers any more acceptable. I find it sad and my heart goes out to these girls, even if they were the biggest sluts in the world. It is only a matter of upbringing that puts them into that position. The majority of these types of girls come from broken homes and or have been molested previously.

Who am I to say anything about it? As I said, I'm a mother.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#8106 - 04/22/08 11:44 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
97and107 Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
 Originally Posted By: Phillip
We as a society have accepted the idea that teenage kids want to get laid--that's why sex ed classes are "safe sex" instead of "abstinence".

How are unwed teen mothers more acceptable than married teenage mothers? And, as long as the way those people live doesn't affect our lives, who are we to say shit about it?

Seems like we could learn a lot from these folks...


So called "Marriage" in today's society is a fucking joke. Think about it. Some stranger or maybe a religious weirdo you know says a few lines in a fancy manmade building and suddenly you're magically bound together in perfect morality. Nuh-uh. It doesn't work like that.

Thirteen years old?!? I didn't even KNOW about sex, I just wanted to play video games. This is fucking disgusting...it's just a bunch of pedophiles using religion as their excuse to fuck around with little kids...

"Unwed" how disgusting....whatever happened to Love? Marriage is bullshit...

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#8115 - 04/23/08 11:01 AM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: 97and107]
Phillip Offline
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Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
"Any man over about 18 that has sex with a girl under 16, even under the pretense of marriage should be arrested, as far as I'm concerned."

So it's ok to have sex with other irresponsible kids, but not grown-ups willing to make a serious commitment (i.e. "spiritual marriage")?

"I personally don't think young girls are capable of making the best decision for themselves..."

Neither do they--that's why they arrange marriages for these "horny teenage girls", as you so quaintly put it.

97and107 may not have know about sex at thirteen, but todays kids certainly do.

And really, isn't it the law that's out of line with nature? People are animals, just like any other, right? When an animal is ready to mate, it mates. It doesn't wait for the tribe silverback to declare "You have witnessed a dozen winters; now you may procreate."

Once again, who are we to say anything about it? They aren't YOUR kids. Being a mother doesn't give you any right to raise other people's kids. If it did, you'd have to be willing to let other folks tell you how to raise yours. Are you ready for that?
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8124 - 04/23/08 05:58 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Being a mother gives me LIFE EXPERIENCE. Also being a female give me LIFE EXPERIENCE and everything I've seen in my life, screems at me that these cults are riddled with abuse.

 Quote:
So it's ok to have sex with other irresponsible kids, but not grown-ups willing to make a serious commitment (i.e. "spiritual marriage")?


Not really, but I don't think its a crime of peodophelia. I DO think the other a crime of abuse and peopdophelia.

 Quote:
"I personally don't think young girls are capable of making the best decision for themselves..."

Neither do they--that's why they arrange marriages for these "horny teenage girls", as you so quaintly put it.


Good try, except I said I remember being a horny teenage girl. I didn't call them that. That's why you had to change the quote completely and just add those three words to make your argument work. Also, I think it's better that said girls grow old enough to have a chance of making the right decisions for them.
Not FORCE them into marriage with creepy OLD men, for the purpose of having children, while they are still children themselves.

As for animals mating when they are ready, even animals that mate for life (like geese), get to CHOOSE THEIR OWN MATES and not have them forced upon them by the rest of the geese community. But I stand by what I say. That is why I used my daughters physiology as an example. Humans are somewhat different to animals in many when it comes to sex.

 Quote:
If it did, you'd have to be willing to let other folks tell you how to raise yours. Are you ready for that?


Ready for it? Shit dude, it's pretty much already here. The government has ALOT to say about raising your kids these days.
Immunizations and school are just two examples of this. Also, I am an unashamed feminist, so that also gives me the urge if not right to have an opinion about this. I'm not against men or marriage, but it should be the CHOICE of all party's involved. Too many stories of rape and abuse have come out of these places to NOT investigate the well being of these children.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#8125 - 04/23/08 06:34 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Phillip Offline
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Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
Umm, so you're saying YOU were a "horny teenage girl", but they are not? I doubt that. Further, I think the argument works just fine as "They don't think young girls are capable of making good decisions for themselves, so they arrange marriages for them."

Also, I'm not sure I understand the last part of your post. Are you saying you support/like/wish there was more government interference in childrearing?

I'd also like to point out that the "stories of rape and abuse", at least in this particular case, seem to not have "come out of" this place at all. Rather, it appears that the initial allegations originated with some crazy bitch on the outside.

I wonder what the divorce rates are like within the FLDS community?
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8135 - 04/23/08 11:31 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
97and107 Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
You know what Phillip, I think you're a pedophile plastering your shit all over our forum because you're trying to justify your disgusting fantasies about fresh nubile youths. If you're such a sick fuck as to believe that somehow kids marrying grownups is suddenly ok just because it's a "legal holy matrimony" or whatever the hell it is you're going on about, you need to step down son, because I would put a fist in your face if I suddenly found out you wanted to marry a 13 year old girl. I have zero tolerance for those kind of shenanigans and I wouldn't care if the FBI went in and mowed down every single one of those fuckers, because they're misogynists - they're below human.

I would literally just knock you the fuck out. There are a lot of issues in this world that piss me off and I just let it slide, but that one, damn...you guys get really bold on the fucking internet because you don't have some crazy bitch like me standing next to you to listen to your garbage in person where I COULD do that...

Be that as it may, I still think it's fine once a girl reaches adulthood to choose whoever she wants as a mate, but she needs to HAVE THAT CHOICE available to her. Not raised like some kind of breeding cow in an incestuous religious freak facility.

(Since when do Satanists give a flying fuck about divorce rates anyways?)

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#8145 - 04/24/08 04:20 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: 97and107]
Phillip Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
I think your knocker's broke, buddy.

If people are animals, just like any other, what's wrong with raising breeding cows? Quit trying to impose your fascist conservative Christian morals on me, backing them up with empty threats of violence, fucko. Go thump your Bible at someone else.

"People have rights! We should treat them fairly! Blah blah Jesus loves you blah!"
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8150 - 04/24/08 06:22 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
She wasn't talking about 'people' having rights, she was talking about 'children' having rights.

As was I. Animal young don't get married off to old bulls and raped.

Being a Satanist doesn't mean being a women hating, child fucking loser.

If all you've got to say in this thread is now attacking the player and not the ball, your arguments are exhausted and your say in this thread should be done.

Zeph



Edited by ZephyrGirl (04/24/08 06:23 PM)
Edit Reason: grammer and spelling
_________________________
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#8154 - 04/24/08 07:50 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: ZephyrGirl]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: ZephyrGirl
She wasn't talking about 'people' having rights, she was talking about 'children' having rights.

As was I. Animal young don't get married off to old bulls and raped.

Being a Satanist doesn't mean being a women hating, child fucking loser.

If all you've got to say in this thread is now attacking the player and not the ball, your arguments are exhausted and your say in this thread should be done.

Zeph



Our closest genetic relatives the Bonobos are the only other animal besides us to use sex as a recreational activity. These look like Chimps, but they are a different species.

In Bonobo society there seems to be no rules or taboos when it comes to sexual encounters. Sometimes you;ll see male on male action, sometimes girl on girl action; sometimes group sex, and then adults have sex with children. This is a sample video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bg3u806w9h0

Kayla
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Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#8157 - 04/24/08 08:48 PM Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along please! [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Meq Offline
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Posts: 861
It's not exactly PC to cite evidence that pedophilia is to some extent natural (as proven by our Bonobo cousins)... just as organizations such as NAMBLA can and do cite such evidence in their promotion of pedophilia. To openly cite evidence against the PC norm (that it is totally unnatural and thus evil) is to gain association with the enemy.

I spoke to a friend of mine, who is a trained classicist and practicing psychotherapist. He mentioned how among many ancient Greeks, sexual relationships between young boys and men were seen as a positive thing.
So I asked the question - were these Greek boys psychologically damaged by their sexual encounters? He said that, given the cultural climate, it was unlikely that much real emotional harm was involved.

On my hypnotherapy training, I encountered a therapist who had had intercourse with her uncle while a little girl. She said that she felt she hadn't come to any harm at all from the experience, as it was done out of love.
In my experience as a trainee hypnotherapist, I learned how this is often the sort of thing which is common but rarely talked about, due to the societal taboo.

I am not in any way endorsing pedophilia here, don't get me wrong. Anyone causing harm to children needs to be stopped and punished in my book.

But all the facts need to be faced up to, not just those which sit comfortably with cultural taboos.
These issues often bring up strong moral sentiments and value judgments. But I think it is wise not to be too dogmatic about 'Right' and 'Wrong', as if you have the ideas sown up in your back pocket - an attitude which is still the norm nowadays.

To quote John Gray (LSE):
"[Many people] avoid inspecting their moral intuitions too closely. Perhaps this is just as well. If they scrutinized them, they would find that they had a history - often a rather short history. Today everyone knows that inequality is wrong. A century ago everyone knew that gay sex was wrong. The intuitions people have on moral questions are intensely felt. They are also shallow and transient to the last degree."

Perhaps some food for thought (not directed at anyone in particular) - I'd strongly endorse taking a philosophical approach to such heated issues. Nothing distorts one's outlook more than dogmatic moral indignation. Take a chill pill. You'll be able to think more clearly and see all the different perspectives from a gods-eye view...


P.S.
Here is that video embedded:



Edited by Mequa (04/24/08 09:10 PM)
Edit Reason: Extra comment

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#8158 - 04/24/08 09:33 PM Re: Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along please! [Re: Meq]
97and107 Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
Yeah I agree Mequa, but this is a matter of freedom, and you don't fuck with that in my arena.

We're not bonobos - I had thought of that ten years ago actually, that's nothing new - we're humans. We need to address this on human terms, in the now, and not based on what Greek civilization was doing thousands of years ago. The Greek empire is hardly a model that survived into the present day, is it?

Their "glories" lie in ruin and are paved over to make room for more Christian churches.

Here's an example of the kind of damage this does to our race, it's just one of millions of posts you can find online on various survivor support forums - this is a shell of a human being.

 Quote:
Hello Mr. (name omitted)

I'm not calling you Dad for a reason, and I'm not here today to wish you a Happy Fathers Day. In so many ways, I wish I was, but I'm not. I am here today for me, not for you.
I'm here today as part of this horrible process of trying to heal myself from all the problems you created in me as a result of the things you did to me and Larry when we were just children.
I want you to take a good look at me now. I want you to look at my life, and where I am and how I got here. Before you now stands the empty shell of a human being. Empty because you could not control your anger, or your perverted thoughts towards young boys.
I want you to look at the results of your actions. Sure, you saw much in Larry's behavior before you left this life. I'm sure you've seen much more since you've been gone. How proud are you of how you treated him after he told you he was gay? I can remember all your comments and cussing of queers, and homo's and I'm sure he can remember them as well. How does it feel to know that you were a Faggot, a Queer, and even worse, a child molester. You have no idea how much anger and hatred I have towards you and that is why I'm here today. To make sure that you know, that there can be no question about how what you did has, and still does effect me. While I can't speak for Larry, I'm sure that he would have much to add. I only wish he was here to do so, perhaps someday he will, if he hasn't already.
What were you thinking as you crept into our bedroom at night to fulfill your perverted urges? Did you think that because we were "asleep", that it wouldn't hurt anything. That you could do what ever you wanted without there being any effect on us? Or, did you just really not give a shit if it did effect us as long as you got the pleasure you were after by doing such perverted things to two very young boys. Your own flesh and blood? What was it that made you act on your own fucked up desires? I have to wonder if Pappy did the same things to you? Is that where you learned how to do it? Is that why you molested us? You were not enough of a man to resist the urges you had? I can't help but wonder.
You were such a tough queer though when it came to little boys weren't you. You had THE POWER to control, and intimidate, and scare the hell out of us and you were very good at using your POWER. And the yelling and cussing, and the beatings with your all too handy belt. Did that give you the same feeling that molesting us did, did you get off on it?
Just look at the way you have screwed me up. All the issues your uncontrolled urges left me with. I can't function with the woman I love because of you. She and I both hate you for that. She is the most wonderful woman in the world, and I have caused her so much pain because of what you did to me. The saddest thing of all is that her Father did the same thing to her, that you did to me. I hope you are both in a place to see how what you did is killing us from the inside out every day of our miserable lives.
I have so many questions for you that I know I will never get the answers to and even that makes me angry. It is as if you got away with murder. Yes murder!! Not the easy kind of murder, where I would be dead and have nothing left to feel or any more pain to endure. No, your murder was the more horrible type, the type that slowly kills me every day I'm alive, from the inside out. The kind that makes a normal life impossible. The kind of murder of a childs soul that should never be forgiven. Just the thought that you found God, and asked for his forgiveness, and that now you are in heaven pisses me off more than anything. If that is the case, then you got away with far more than anyone ever should have and if that's the case, and I end up there too, I hope you are good at hiding from me. I would love to beat the hell out you, I really would.
I was so scared of you. Your rage and constant verbal abuse made me live in fear of doing anything that made you mad. I'm not scared anymore. I'm not scared because you are gone, I'm not scared because I'm not a little boy anymore, and if you showed up here right now, I would still not be afraid of you, I'm as big as you were, and I'm much stronger than you were in more ways than one. You wouldn't last 30 seconds against me right now.
Although it wouldn't help me much, I would love to hear your excuses for what you did?
I would love to hear you explain why you did what you did. While it would not cure my hatred and anger, it might offer some insight that I will never have since you can't.
I hope that wherever you are, that you can be made to feel how much I suffer. I hope you can suffer right along with me, and with Larry, and God forbid, any other child who was unfortunate to be a victim of your fucked up actions. Did you molest Matt or Alicia? Was it as easy to get away with married to Roberta as it was married to my mother? How did you get away with sneaking out of bed at night to come molest us? Did you find other little boys to play with when you traveled each week? How many other lives did you destroy before you got your ticket out of this life anyway?
Where ever you are, I hope you know how badly you fucked us up. I hope you can suffer right along with us, though what ever amount you suffer could not compare with what we are suffering thanks to you

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#8161 - 04/25/08 12:57 AM Re: Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along please! [Re: Meq]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
This is taken from the site http://www.bonobo.org

Note, this supports what I said about choice and rape.

The video was interesting enough if that monkey fucking kind of a way, but didn't really hold any facts or information about their society and rules or taboos they may actually hold. So I looked it up for us.

These animals do not rape each other and it is A MATRIARCAL SOCIETY.

So if this is to be our example, sure, it backs up what I've been saying perfectly I think.

Peaceful and powered by females

... In contrast to the competitive, male-dominated culture of their close relative the chimpanzee, bonobo society is peaceful, matriarchal and more egalitarian. Bonobos live in large groups where harmonious coexistence is the norm. While in many ways, males and females have "separate but equal" roles, females carry the highest rank, and the sons of ranking females are the leaders among males. Females form close bonds and alliances, which is another way they maintain their power among males, who are larger and stronger physically.

Like chimps, bonobo society is "male philopatric," meaning that the females migrate to other groups when they reach puberty. This eliminates the chance of incest and increases genetic diversity. However, the wild bonobo population is so fragmented now in the Congo, with small groups living in isolated pockets, that the sustainability of the species is severely threatened. It will be critical for us to establish protected areas and corridors to provide for genetic viability of the species. However, bonobos share a human landscape, and our work with indigenous Congolese people is an important aspect of bonobo conservation. Learn about BCI's programs to protect bonobos.



"Make Love, Not War"
Bonobos seem to ascribe to the 1960s hippie credo, "make love, not war." They make a lot of love, and do so in every conceivable fashion. Beyond that, they are very loving too, showing care and compassion for each other in many ways. Sex in bonobo society transcends reproduction, as it does in humans. It serves as a way of bonding, exchanging energy and sharing pleasure.

Bonobos have been described as "pansexual" by psychologist Frans de Waal. Sex permeates the fabric of bonobo society, weaving through all aspects of daily life. It serves an important function in keeping the society together, maintaining peaceful, cooperative relations. Besides heterosexual contact, both male and female bonobos engage in same-sex encounters, and even group sex occurs. Female-female contact, or "GG-rubbing," is actually the most common.
NOTE: This explains your attraction to them Kayla, LOL Unlike other apes, bonobos frequently copulate face-to-face, looking into each others eyes. When bonobo groups meet in the forest, they greet each other, bond sexually, and share food instead of fighting. Likewise, almost any conflict between bonobos is eased by sexual activity, grooming, or sharing food.

Like humans, bonobo females are sexually receptive throughout most of their estrus cycle. Chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes), on the other hand, only mate during the few days when a female is fertile. Generally, the ranking males in chimp society "get the girls." Male chimps make macho displays to impress females and can be quite vehement in their demands. Consequently, chimp females do not have much control over who they mate with. Bonobo males tend to be a bit more polite. They ask first, by displaying themselves in a persuasive but non-aggressive manner, offering food or making other propositions - and bonobo females have the right to refuse.

The sexual aspect of bonobo behavior is best understood in the context of bonobo culture. Sex does not necessarily mean the same thing to a bonobo that it does to a human. However, it raises compelling questions about the roots of human nature, and is particularly striking in contrast to chimpanzee society. Scholars continue to study this unique phenomenon and debate its implications.
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#8164 - 04/25/08 07:01 AM Abuse and damage [Re: 97and107]
Meq Offline
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Posts: 861
It was never in question how sexual abuse can and does produce real emotional harm in humans, particularly in a case such as this survivor.

However, from an empirical perspective, it makes sense to deal with each case on an individual basis, rather than making overgeneralisations based on value judgments. This is clearly one of the more harmful cases of child abuse (excluding cases where the child dies).

This boy's dad was clearly a rage-filled, power-crazed bully who (like many rapists) used sex as a tool of power and control, alongside beatings and verbal abuse. It looks like this boy suffered a lot of abuse at the hands of his (religiously fanatical) dad - emotional, sexual, and physical.

Unfortunately, his dad is dead, so any further desire for revenge cannot be realistically acted out against him personally (except as a psychodrama).
All a survivor can do in such a position is come to terms with his feelings, and channel them into constructive action along the healing process.
Very difficult.

As Nietzsche put it (in my reading of him), it is only the stronger individual who can 'turn his injury to his own advantage' so that 'what doesn't kill him makes him stronger'.
The majority of humans may well be unable to recover completely from such traumas, and end up as shells of their former selves.
This is ultimately not 'right' or 'wrong' (which are value judgments), it is just a fact of life.

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#8166 - 04/25/08 11:26 AM Re: Abuse and damage [Re: Meq]
97and107 Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
Yeah, well, I'm not going to bother trading in my overgeneralisations to accomodate the sexual needs of somebody else - I'm not a pedophile and I probably never will be.

And in the real world Mequa, I think you'll find that my opinion is far more popular, simply because it needs to be that way.

Zephyr, good points there...

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#8168 - 04/25/08 12:46 PM Re: Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along ple [Re: ZephyrGirl]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
\:\) I didn't know GG Rubbing was most common... that is fascinating. To me two snails rubbing on each other is more representative of how we get things done... you know? *wink wink*

Kayla
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#8169 - 04/25/08 01:32 PM Re: Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along ple [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Phillip Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
Well, certainly if your opinion is more popular, we should adopt it for ourselves. The herd is always right, you know...
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8184 - 04/26/08 08:35 AM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
sorry to come on to the topic late into the conversation been out in the field doing shit for the past few days.
Yes many people think it's wrong i do to but I guess we are not into the position to debate that because all right and wrong is, is a matter of opinion. However the children do need to stay in the governments costudy because of the treatment they got by this old yuppy fuck. IF i had kids i personally wouldn't want them to be having sex simply because of what was posted earlier about (mind you this is a paraphrase sorta) young teens not being able to make the wisest decisions. I almost had a kid at the age of 15, hurray for alcohol right? I wouldn't want my 13,14,fuck it 15-18 year old son or daughter telling me i'm going to be a grandparent.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#8231 - 04/27/08 07:24 PM Re: Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along please! [Re: Meq]
Stag Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 84
 Originally Posted By: Mequa
It's not exactly PC to cite evidence that pedophilia is to some extent natural (as proven by our Bonobo cousins)... just as organizations such as NAMBLA can and do cite such evidence in their promotion of pedophilia. To openly cite evidence against the PC norm (that it is totally unnatural and thus evil) is to gain association with the enemy.


Watch that naturalistic fallacy there, Mequa. Mother Nature's a bitch, and there's no reason for us to take our lead from Her. We're on our own out here, making up the rules as we go along -- for better or worse.

That aside, you seem to approaching this from a Utilitarian perspecive -- if nobody gets hurt (emotionally or otherwise), then what's the problem? Which rather serves to highlight some of the intristic weaknessess in Utilitarian ethics. More importantly in my opinion, is not what such an exploitative act does to the victim, by what it says about the perpretator.

Stag

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