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#8112 - 04/23/08 06:11 AM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: 97and107]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Thank you so much, Naomi.

Sorry, Octavius, but sometimes a boner is just a boner... wasn't that Freud?

Physiology does not mean intent or action, but you have to admit... chicks are hot!

Please tell me that you've never glanced at cleavage, or a beautiful curvy (97 and 107) style bunnocks (my word, thank you) - and I won't know what to do.

Monogamous does not equal "dead". At least that's what I keep telling myself...

(Maybe it's just because I'm so damn hot.) \:D
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#8121 - 04/23/08 01:50 PM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
gods418 Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 12
selene im just curious at what your job really is????
what kinda jod needs lying to men??? hhhmmmmmmm.........

ill be on the lookout for women like these...
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#8130 - 04/23/08 07:56 PM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: gods418]
selene Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 15
@97and107: Would you like to borrow my mirror? Really, I won't mind.

@daevid777: Bunnocks? I would associate that as meaning similar to the buttocks of a rabbit. Monogamy? I mean, there is nothing inherently "wrong" with monogamy, but it seems rather boring, and could stagnate rather quickly- just as you pointed out.

@gods418: Actually, I lie to men AND to women. Just men more so. In addition, you could say my profile job description: professional enticer of lust is an accurate summarization of what my work is.

-Selene

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#8141 - 04/24/08 03:16 AM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: selene]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
I think people have a right to lie, and I don't condemn them for it. I believe that it may even be beneficial to lie constantly for some people. Right now I think I'm in the zone to just tell the truth for me, and there's nothing wrong with that.

That's the beauty of Satanism to me, we can choose our ethics based on whatever works for us and wherever our own personal truth or paradox lies...

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#8423 - 05/06/08 07:55 AM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: selene]
Sasspra Offline
lurker


Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 3
I think everyone deceives others to an extent, some more than others. In fact, I think in some rare cases it's ok to deceive others. Here's an example: Let's say you have a friend who's trying on an outfit at a store and you already know they like it and are probably going to buy it anyway. You might think it doesn't look good on them, but you tell them otherwise when they ask your opinion because you know they aren't really asking for your opinion, but moreso confirmation.

It all just depends on what extent and how harmful the deception is that really differentiates destructive actions vs. just "keeping the peace". I think there are too many people in this world that have no objection to stepping on others and lying to get what they want (with no regard whatsoever of the damage it might do to others).

I also think they should be careful of what they do because some of them are accustomed to being around people that don't hold them accountable or retaliate. Sooner or later they'll run into a person like that, and when they do, they usually whine and cry when the other person decides to retaliate.


Edited by Sasspra (05/06/08 07:56 AM)

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#8507 - 05/08/08 12:05 PM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: Sasspra]
selene Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 15
Sasspra:
I have to say, your post jumps from idea to idea, thus making it rather hard to understand your conclusion. So are you trying to say that in your belief, it is permissible to tell little white lies for the sole purpose of 'keeping the peace'? This is what I gather from your post:

Premise 1: Everyone deceives others to a certain extent.
Premise 2: In some rare cases it is ok to deceive others.
Premise 3: 'White lies' are an acceptable deception when 'keeping the peace'.
Premise 4: The permissibility of deception is based on possible extent of harm.
Premise 5: There is a moral difference between a deception of "destructive action" and deception of "keeping the peace".
Premise 6: There are many people who deceive to get what they want without regard to others.
Premise 7: Some of those who deceive to get what they want are not held accountable.
Premise 8: Those who deceive to get what they want may whine and cry when held accountable.

Honestly, I think this is a very simplistic "moralized" viewpoint. To me, deception is equivalent in all forms. I'm still using it for my own purpose, whether I'm deceiving you as to avoid hurting your feelings and thus having to comfort you afterwards; or, if I'm deceiving you to achieve my own personal goals without regard to you. It makes no difference why I'm doing it, deception is based on what will present best for me.

Selene

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#8539 - 05/09/08 07:30 AM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: selene]
PigFeeder Offline
member


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Near Montreal, QC
Personally, little white lies can be the most ridiculous lies ever. Example: If your friend puts on an outfit, don't lie and say it looks good. Tell her to her face, no it makes you look like an idiot. There is a such thing a constructive criticsm. Lying about it won't help her or make your friend better. Now on the subject of lying to people to get your own way in life; if you find it has benifit for you, then yes go for it. One of the many basic ideas of Satanism is to do what it takes and rise above all else. Sometimes secrets from the people and lies to them can better your position over them. It's all in your judgment.

~~Snow~~.
_________________________
For all murderers, I am the leader.
Forever, Rob, The 49 PigFeeder.
NecroMantic Sin.

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#8550 - 05/09/08 04:59 PM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: PigFeeder]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
pigfeeder I do agree with what you are saying fully...
Personally i see nothing wrong with intentionally decieving others at all. I find that the omission of certain things or just a flat out lie to get what one desires is a copmletly natural thing. If I remember right doesn't the deception of others fall into the lesser black magick picture? I personaly take enjoyment out of the minipulation of other people I find it quite amusing that it is so damn easy to fool someone into doing or thinking something that you want them to do or think.
I also think that this act like other things should be thought out and not become a habitual compulsion/impulse to do. Indulgence not compulsion. (I believe that is the qoute correct me if I am wrong it has been a while since I have read TSB)
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Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#8597 - 05/10/08 07:42 PM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: Ringmaster]
PigFeeder Offline
member


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Near Montreal, QC
And I agree with you sir. I don't see anythign necessarily wrong about lying. It lies in your judgement that wether the persone you are lying to deserves the truth. Or they rather don't need to know. As I've stated it is all in your judgement. I don't see really how it falls into black magic picture. [Magick for those who are insecure enough and need to give it a different name to change it up a bit]. But I do believe as I have already previously stated, it is in fact quite 'Satanic' to lie.

[A Satanist usually has the habit of doing whatever they need to do, to get to the top.] If you find lying gets you in a better position, then power to you my friend. But personally I would find it sick for someone to find pleasure in manipulating tthem to an extreme degree. There is a such thing as positive manipulation, but be careful. Although, if you are truly Satanist, you will do what you will because there is no such thing as " What goes around comes around, what you do is done upon you threefold, etc etc. So in short, manipulation can be used, but do it to better yourself, not for the degrading of other or for pleasure.

You are very right, indulgence not compulsion.

~~Snow~~.
_________________________
For all murderers, I am the leader.
Forever, Rob, The 49 PigFeeder.
NecroMantic Sin.

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#8601 - 05/10/08 10:24 PM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: PigFeeder]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: PigFeeder
Although, if you are truly Satanist, you will do what you will because there is no such thing as " What goes around comes around, what you do is done upon you threefold, etc etc.

I have known a Satanist that I respected as a best friend for 20 years that also believed that there was power in the mind… Visualization and meditation were also very high on his list of things that work… He also believed in the phases of the moon and other astrological influence…

To disregard what you reap you sow is just ignorant talk…

Funny he would have called me a fool for putting my words and thoughts on the internet for all to see… Perhaps I am but I do not expect others to see things the way I do…

Lesser magic is real all you need to do is see and understand what lesser magic is as defined by Anton… Deceit can be called lesser magic if it helps you towards your goal… Now greater magic and black magic well those I will leave to others…

Remember in your own words PigFeeder Satanism is what you make it… You did just say that in a thread yesterday I believe… Stand behind what you believe fully and remember what you state as your beliefs from day to day… Otherwise you simply end up a hypocrite…

If you think I am an asshole with holding you to your words and beliefs then trust me, you sir would never handle a friendship with a true Satanist…

Be as you are…

Peace

~T~
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#8602 - 05/10/08 10:28 PM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: PigFeeder]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
What goes around comes around


Actually I disagree with that statement. The common law of cause and effect, or 'what goes around comes around' is certainly something that I would think most Satanists beleive in.

That is one of the reasons you need to carefully weigh up what you put out in the world.

I agree however that a beleif in karma or the wiccan three fold law is not one held by Satanists.

Zeph

PS I hadn't seen Ta2zz reply when I wrote that, so sorry for doubling up here and saying a similar thing.



Edited by ZephyrGirl (05/10/08 10:31 PM)
Edit Reason: noticed anothers reply to topic
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It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#8607 - 05/11/08 01:11 PM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: ta2zz]
PigFeeder Offline
member


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Near Montreal, QC
I'm not in the mood to argue, I'm really tired of arguing here so what I'll do is disregard the condescending attitude..

Satanism IS what you make of it. But no matter what one says, Satanism has it's basic princepals. Like you said to me one time, " Well that's not very Satanic of you." If it was what I made of it then you would never had said that. So in other words Satnism is what you makje of it, but there are basic princepals as I said. I don't worship TSB but one of the main points which I find are a part of our foundation is that, you control your own destiny. There is none of that BS you find in The Holy Bible about "Do upon others what you would have done upon thyself" stuff or " What you send out comes back to you threefold", "What you give out comes back threefold, Sevenfold" [Pagan belief], etc. You're life is what you make of it and there is no 'God' up there controlling your destiny. There is no 'Karma'. Your actions may have consequences but, just because you do something bad doesn't mean something bad is coming to you. Read over TSB and a few other things and tell me if I'm wrong?

I'm simply saying that our destiny is what we make of it. And there is no Christian beliefs of "If you do something bad, God will make sure something bad will happen to you".
This is just my opinion. Everyone has a different idea of Satanism.

Ta2zz, would be nice if you stopped questioning my belief in Satanism. Unless you had some emaculate evidence or theory to say that I was completely not Satanism, I'd ask you to stop. I find it quite the insult for someone to tell me I'm not something, when in fact I live by it everyday...

Good day to you.

~~Snow~~.
_________________________
For all murderers, I am the leader.
Forever, Rob, The 49 PigFeeder.
NecroMantic Sin.

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#8609 - 05/11/08 02:30 PM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: ZephyrGirl]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
 Originally Posted By: ZephyrGirl
 Quote:
What goes around comes around


Actually I disagree with that statement. The common law of cause and effect, or 'what goes around comes around' is certainly something that I would think most Satanists beleive in.

That is one of the reasons you need to carefully weigh up what you put out in the world.

I agree however that a beleif in karma or the wiccan three fold law is not one held by Satanists.

Zeph

PS I hadn't seen Ta2zz reply when I wrote that, so sorry for doubling up here and saying a similar thing.



Karma isn't well understood in the western world, it was never some boogeyman coming to get you, instead one could merely call it the Indian conceptualization of time and space and the laws of gravity for all it tells us about "Karma".

Quantum physics today is telling us that we are constantly projecting our reality and this biofeedback is what causes reality itself, that is, we are alone and constantly being battered about (or coddled) by the forces created by our mind...something the Indian mystics knew over 8000 years ago!

Still, it's good to see east and west finally synching up. I'd like to reccomend a video I watched recently - maybe you've already seen it - it helps sum up real karma and not the pop wicca-new age bs we've grokked form the 60's era pseudo-magickal revivalism.

http://www.whatthebleep.com/

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#8613 - 05/11/08 07:16 PM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: 97and107]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
What if one has no conscience? Harbors no feelings of guilt? It seems as if only those who feel guilty when doing something are the first ones to believe that when something negative happens to them, that it is a form of spriritual payback, whether it's from a deity or karma.

For instance, if I felt guilty somewhere deep down about stealing something expensive, then somewhere down the road I get something expensive stolen from me (or be stupid enough to get caught), it's only natural to think that I'm being punished karmically for my earlier transgression.

However, if I felt completely justified in obtaining this property illegally, and lost no sleep over it whatsoever, would there be a smaller chance (or no chance at all) of it "biting me in the ass", so to speak?

Granted, there are levels where one's conscience (and mental health) should be questioned. Murder (unless you or your family was attacked), grand theft, basically the fundamental boundaries that make up Western society and make it possible for most of us to be safe.

I think karma is only in our minds. It's like seeing shadows in every corner and ghosts in a haunted house--it only affects you if you believe in it. But that's me, and my personal beliefs certainly don't apply to anyone else. I don't expect anyone to agree with me either, but again, that's okay.
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#8728 - 05/16/08 07:18 PM Re: Opinions on intentional deception [Re: PigFeeder]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
 Originally Posted By: PigFeeder

Ta2zz, would be nice if you stopped questioning my belief in Satanism. Unless you had some emaculate evidence or theory to say that I was completely not Satanism, I'd ask you to stop. I find it quite the insult for someone to tell me I'm not something, when in fact I live by it everyday...

~~Snow~~.

pigfeeder:
take this as you will, because I won't shed a tear if I happen to offend you but that is not my intent.
Yes people questioning your belief in something is quite iritating but you don't need to be hypersensitive about it. If anything it should serve as a challenge to gain more knowledge and an oppurtunity to back up your own beliefs not an invite to whine about it.
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Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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