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#83268 - 12/14/13 11:19 AM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 1323
Weird - I was listening to NPR regarding the noble prize for physics (the discovery of the higgs boson). This was the work of 6 people, but the nobel prize limits the number of recipients to 3. Hmmm... I did not know this.

What this means is that 3 people are basically assed-out.

What the shit does this have to do with Satanism? Well, those who take physics seriously and work out the tough problems do so because that's what intrigues them and as a by-product of their observations and academic rigor the field is expanded.

Factor in the noble prize and the ends vs means get flipped on its head.

1/2 of those who worked on the higgs boson aren't going to be mentioned worth a shit. With any luck they simply don't care, but it is still fucked up.

Similar to "Laveyan" Satanism. Most people are all "LaVey this" and "LaVey" that... but the reality is there were a ton of other lesser known people who contributed to that synthesis and probably worked harder than he. So yeah, in a sense I sorta see Acquino's point of view - I too would be like "wow, that sucks man - no love lost, but that was a pretty shit-deal" Just one of those things.

There are other very competent researchers whose efforts go completely unacknowledged, and even exploited. This happens in every field.

So when I hear "what have you done for Satanism lately" I assume whoever's asking me that is really asking "what have I done to help YOU make a name for yourself" - no thanks, I do well enough on my own, as does Satanism. Only the most self-absorbed and lime-light starved physicists would ever inquire "what have YOU done for the field of physics lately?"

Same deal.


Edited by antikarmatomic (12/14/13 11:25 AM)
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#83269 - 12/14/13 11:24 AM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: SIN3]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 2976
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Exactly.

Some treat Satanism as an anthropomorphic thing that should be served. It's all "What have you done for Satanism lately?"


Give me a break. You're doing it wrong.





It's always been like this though. People that don't really get it trying to turn the whole thing inside out. There will always be another styxhexenhammer, or another venus satanas, or another zach black. These sorts are plentiful because it takes no understanding of anything, no marked change from 'normal' to be these sorts, as these sorts of views reflect standardized western views.

Anyone can dabble their toe in the water and fancy themselves a swimmer.

Satanism is a thing you do, an activity, a tool to bring about change in the self. These folks invoke images of a carpenter worshipping his own hammer, without ever learning to swing it.
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#83271 - 12/14/13 11:58 AM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 3476
Loc: Virginia
Using a bit of Dan's analogy here, if you can't think off the top of your head who invented the hammer, who cares? You know what the hammer does and you know how to use it. Would the inventor have any bearing on what you build using the hammer?

I can pick up a rock and use it as a tool and believe "Hey, I've invented something here, I call it 'Hammer'!!!" Later, I find out someone else thought of it first. That's what I believe LaVey was looking at. He wasn't out to re-invent the wheel, just call a Spade a Spade.
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#83273 - 12/14/13 12:18 PM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 1323
Agreed and that's precisely the point! It shouldn't have any bearing whatsoever, even more so that while a hammer is an invention, the higgs-boson was a discovery. Satanism is more along the lines of a discovery than an invention - giving a name to a thing. Yet some people are stuck using the whole "to further Satanism" as a very thinly veiled attempt to further their own celebrity... or making the study of physics a prize contest - something meaningful is a lost and disenfranchisement becomes pretty normal.

Inasmuch as it is a discovery and not an invention, I think that's basically why "we" socialize - basically the common human instinct to reach out and be like "yo? anyone else see that?" "yeap, sure do" "ok cool, thought I was a bit 'touched' for a sec" "nah, I see it - it's like this - actually wrote a book about it, care to read?" "ok, yeap that mostly fits... but I'm standing at a different angle, here's what I see" "ah, yeah I get it, but I don't quite see it like that I'm at a different angle, but yeah - its there" "ok, cool, so hmmm... how do you utilize it" "well I do this and such and such, you?" "well, some of that, but I don't use it for that" "give it a whirl sometime" "k"

"We discovered a new planet, I will name it after myself or whatever I fancy" just nah. Is it saturn or is it chronos? Depends if you're greek or roman. Either way it is neither - it is what it is - it doesn't need our support nor reverence. It works for me, I don't work for it nor should I be asked to. It's just a matter of what I'm in/up to.

Sure, some people try to make it work for them as a media gimmick to further their own celebrity and I have no real "beef" while with that (mostly), it is pretty translucent.



Edited by antikarmatomic (12/14/13 12:45 PM)
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#83861 - 01/07/14 02:31 PM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: SIN3]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 3476
Loc: Virginia
The Satanic Temple reached its goal today: Fund-Raiser , last time I checked it was over 20K

 Quote:

The Oklahoma Capitol Preservation Commission subsequently issued a moratorium on new requests pending resolution of the ACLU lawsuit.


Read more: Oklahoma: Satanic Temple Unveils Monument for Capitol | TIME.com article

I wonder if Greaves has taken into consideration that forcing Secularism on Oklahomans isn't exactly going to win over any judges. I don't care how mainstream friendly you present your PR packet, you're shouting form the roof-tops from another state as well as plugging your ears going "lalalala I'm not listening!" The state of OK has the majority voice in favor of the monument to represent the values of the state citizenship.
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#83863 - 01/07/14 06:03 PM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: SIN3]
Zach_Black Offline
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Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 467
Loc: Portland, Oregon
We ( Sect of the Horned God ) spoke with Greaves last week on skype for a couple hours and this is basically what he had to say.

One of three things are gonna happen.

1. They will allow the Satanic monument.

2. They will not allow it and we will sue the state.

3. They will not allow it and remove the 10 commandments.

I see this as a win win situation. And so you know Greaves is an atheistic Satanist. Just in case you are wondering.

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#83865 - 01/07/14 07:36 PM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: Zach_Black]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 1323
maybe I'm cynical - call me a neigh-sayer; but what I see happening is scenario number 2.

Sue the state? Well, the intent is all well and good, but as always the devil is in the details; will the ACLU will do this pro-bono? How long will it take? Sure, it sounds pretty solid on paper "then I'll sue you!" - but the process is so complex, riddled with red-tape, time-consuming, and costly that it becomes an idle threat. It is too resource-intensive to sue anyone, much less a state.

Win or lose guess who gets paid for services rendered? Oh right!

Quite honestly I like the design and would f'n love to see it come to fruition; in all reality I don't see it happening.

Not to mention; once that thing goes up I give it like maybe 36 hours before it is vandalized and defaced. $20K? ... that's some serious dough to pony up. I suspect that a spin will surface something along the lines of "after giving the matter due consideration 'we' have decided to use these funds in the furtherance of <insert some charitable cause>"

The point, on paper, I agree with but "no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy".

Beyond all that what I am incredibly interested to see is if the fact that the US military and the IRS recognize the C/S somehow puts the C/S above the Satanic Temple... or if it even matters what is federally recognized since this is a state issue.

It raises more interesting questions than it answers. If that's what they were looking to do after-all then they succeeded.


Edited by antikarmatomic (01/07/14 08:10 PM)
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#83867 - 01/07/14 09:34 PM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: Zach_Black]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 3476
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
They will not allow it and we will sue the state.


So, do you think the 20K+ they raised will fund a legal team for the suit?

I mean, if they don't have the statue built then obviously that money will have to be used for something right?

I don't know that it's a win/win. Forcing a State to secularize is really no different than religious saturation.
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#83868 - 01/07/14 10:17 PM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 1323
Actually... I can't vouch for the idea but I mean... it just plain makes sense... I mean anyone with eyes and a brain in their skull can guess how it'll all play out... but it needs to play out (or be forgotten) Satanism finally exhausted to the status of an ACLU puppet. Perhaps more elevated than forum fodder, but still... "everybody's someone else's nigger" - I'm just arm-chair quarter backing here.

The only winner here will be the ACLU. Heads I win, tails you lose.


Edited by antikarmatomic (01/07/14 10:23 PM)
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#83869 - 01/07/14 10:39 PM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 3476
Loc: Virginia
Prescott vs. OK didn't really produce much aside another headline. The monument still stands. So the ACLU didn't really achieve a WIN there. The thing was privately funded.
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#83870 - 01/08/14 12:03 AM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 1323
well, right - so what did that 20k achieve? Do the donors get a refund or a consolation prize? Sure, we're not talking a whole hell of a lot of money... but it's not chump change either - shit it is enough to allow 1,000 people to sport a red-card... that's gotta count for something, right?

Edited by antikarmatomic (01/08/14 12:04 AM)
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#83871 - 01/08/14 03:02 AM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: Zach_Black]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 2349
Win-win situation or not, they're taking the joke a bit too far.
Everyone had his/her laugh with defying the state and getting some attention. Back on the SIN-FB page I already voiced my opinion:

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I'm not too worried. All in all, while I read many people making statements like "letting our voices be heard" my main idea concerning the statue (like the 10 commandments) is it but being mere kitsch. I'm pretty sure in case the statue is erected it would only take 4-5 years before conspiracy theories surrounding government affairs and Illuminati will take the upper-hand.

The newbs to Satanism being surprised if they ever cross eyes to the monument during a trip. "Our voices being heard"? Give it a break.. it'll be reduced to mere decoration.


I'm pretty sure the options you've given aren't the only ones. Talking from experience, non-allowance can also be achieved by simply exhausting the funds through repeated court-cases.

There's 2 possible outcomes.
1) The joke's over and no statue will be erected. Perhaps an honourable mentioning at the bottom of a page in the proverbial book 'History of Satanism'.
2) The statue will be erected but in the course of a few years will be reduced to a (vandalized) insignificant monument. A waste of time and money.

It would be kinda nice to see it erected. But that's all there is to it really.
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#83872 - 01/08/14 03:09 AM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: antikarmatomic]
Brother Nihil Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 65
More interesting from my point of view is the fact that a monument to Azathoth has already been erected in Oklahoma City:

Monument to ‘god of chaos’ mysteriously appears in front of Oklahoma City restaurant

It seems a doorway into the ultimate chaos has been opened in Oklahoma City. It shall be interesting to see what else comes through. Hail Azathoth!
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#83874 - 01/08/14 09:13 AM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: Brother Nihil]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 3476
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Brother Nihil
More interesting from my point of view is the fact that a monument to Azathoth has already been erected in Oklahoma City:

Monument to ‘god of chaos’ mysteriously appears in front of Oklahoma City restaurant

It seems a doorway into the ultimate chaos has been opened in Oklahoma City. It shall be interesting to see what else comes through. Hail Azathoth!


Well that's just awesome. Random placement or not, ffs it's AZATHOTH! The grill will most likely dispose of the thing, unless the Old Ones intervene... News at 11.

I lived in OKC for about a year. There are far more religious people and sentiments throughout the city than there are not. It just sort of comes with the territory. Most Native Americans I met were also Christian. I think the monument issue is an effort in futility, a snatch and grab for headlines and notability.


Edited by SIN3 (01/08/14 09:16 AM)
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#83880 - 01/09/14 07:28 AM Re: Satanic Temple News Article [Re: SIN3]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 3476
Loc: Virginia
The Satanic Temple was a topic of discussion on Ground Zero yesterday.

The Radio programming focused on the Conspiracy of the Catholic Church, Masons, Templars and the Baphomet idol.
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