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#9457 - 06/09/08 11:43 AM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Seraphyim]
Matt Massacre Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
the german religious science called the temple of set as "gnostic converted Satanism", sometimes as "spiritual Satanism" or "traditional Satanism". Today the member and followers of the temple of set preferred the word "Setians" to show the differences between Satanism and setianism, but this is my view (and what i read on the tos-homepage), and im not a tos-member or spokesperson!

Edited by Matt Massacre (06/09/08 11:43 AM)

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#9534 - 06/11/08 11:50 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Seraphyim]
It'sJustMe Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 14
Rather than debate this until the end of time…..


“Is it necessary for a Priest or Priestess of the Temple to believe in the existence of Set? In one sense the answer must be Yes. Simply put: If you are a member of the Priesthood and your answer is no, than I ask you who in the hell are you a Priest of. If you do not recognize Set. You cannot truly belong to the Priesthood of Set.

The next tricky question there presents itself – Who is Set? Set is whatever you, as a member of the Priesthood define/or determine this principle to be. Once you have recognized/acknowledged this principle, Set does exist.”

-Onyx Tablet of Set


This is the same stance taken by the Church of Satan. That Satan is a subjective metaphor defined by the Satanist. For clarification see the “Grotto Masters Handbook”.

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#9539 - 06/12/08 06:04 AM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: It'sJustMe]
Matt Massacre Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
Yes the Satanic Bible said that the view of the gods have so much changed in history that the satanist use the view of a god (or satan) he means is the beast view for him or her. in my views of the Satanic Bible it means that a satanist can believe in satan as real existent beeing, or belive in satan like an non-exist archtype or an morphic energy field or as the power of nature (included animals and humans). the daily leader of the CoS proclaimed Satan doesnt exist and everyone who believe in satan as a real deity isnt (for Gilmore and a lot of his gilmore girls) a real satanist for the leaders and member and they called him "pseudo-satanists". The Church of Satan under the leading of Peter H. Gilmore promote an extreme atheistic and materialistic philosophy. I never meet Anton LaVey and didnt know him private, but I believe LaVeys ideology of the Church of Satan was never the CoS from today!

i hope everyone understand what i mean.

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#9585 - 06/14/08 03:20 AM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Matt Massacre]
It'sJustMe Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 14
The difference is a matter of philosophy. In the example of Peter Gilmore, we are looking at a case of materialism which is a form of monism, meaning the body and mind are of the same stuff. For example in “The God You Save May Be Yourself” chapter of the SB LaVey writes,

“He no longer can view himself in two parts, the carnal and the spiritual, but sees them merge as one, and then to his abysmal horror, discovers that they are only the carnal-AND ALWAYS WERE!”

This is monist materialism.

The perspective of the ToS is that of Substance Dualism, which views the body and mind as two completely different substances. They separate this as the Objective Universe and the Subjective Universe, claiming that any construct of the mind thus exists as a component of the SU. So the ToS is not saying that the devil exists as an objectively quantifiable substance, but as an existence of the mind. Materialism calls this a concept.

Let’s use Santa Clause as an example. The materialist views Santa as “Christmas spirit”, a mental construct that influences humans in the same sense as beauty or justice are concepts that affect human behaviour. We may see people dressed as Santa, who exhibit a personification of “what Christmas is all about”, but in the end anyone who tells their children that Santa is a real person, is a liar.

The Substance Dualist says that Santa exists in the realm of thought. That Santa, being a construct of the conscious mind, exists as a “neter” in the universe of things that are not material.

In effect both sides are saying the exact same thing, that Santa is make-believe. The only difference is that the materialist considers the “subjective universe” as either the function of the brain, (like the calculations made by a calculator), or as a brain state arising from the neurological effects of a material body.

The ToS priesthood no more believes in an objective red, horned, fork-tailed evil beast than Peter Gilmore does. Think about it. The ToS was formed by ex-members of the CoS. Do you think these folks were suddenly awakened to the objective existence of the devil because Aquino sent them a copy of the “Book of Coming forth by Night”?

At this point I may as well go off on a rant over this retarded “intuitive communication”.

The ToS is a rip off of the A:.A:., (as well as the CoS and the Fourth Way), and while Crowley wrote the Book of the Law, it was an expression of a poet. Crowley was a poet, thus when he expressed his self, it came out in the form that would be expected of a poet. Aquino was an army commissioned political scientist, so can we expect him to express his true self as a poet, (or the Charles Dexter Ward bullshit he presents in the BoCFbN), or as a politician?

The ToS is a political, (mans relationship to his fellow man), expression. It is an attempt to manipulate the creations of men far greater than its founder, as a means to make a god out of its founder.

Here is a nice little quote from L. Dale Seago. Seago was appointed as the first ToS Chairman of the Council of Nine and Treasurer (see The Scroll of Set issue 1, September 1975).

“Dr. Aquino has made much of LaVey's perspective becoming such that he could no
longer distinguish between his personal will, that of the true founder of his
Organization, and that Organization itself. In accordance with his own Oath
as an Ipsissimus ("I promise to perceive every phenomenon as Set, that is, as
myself"), sworn before Lilith Sinclair, Dr. Aquino has come to the same end of
his Initiatory Quest. This, I think, explains how he can be so Absolutely
certain that Set -- whom I have always, perhaps erroneously, perceived as a
source of inspiration and _initiatory_ guidance -- is so humanly childish that
he is throwing emotional tantrums out there in the Aether about Affronts and
Abominations. "As above, so below" -- _and_ vice versa! This is how he can
be so Absolutely certain that this entity wishes to control our lives, our
personal and social ethics, and our interactive associations through his High
Priest. Michael Aquino has simply placed Set upon God's throne, and then sat
down upon it himself.”

-letter from L. Dale Seago to the Priesthood of Set, 26 July XVII*

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#10367 - 07/29/08 02:31 AM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Matt Massacre]
Samuel Satanas Offline
lurker


Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 2
 Originally Posted By: Matt Massacre
I never meet Anton LaVey and didnt know him private, but I believe LaVeys ideology of the Church of Satan was never the CoS from today!

i hope everyone understand what i mean.


Agreed. Lavey was far deeper than Gilmore with his simple athesism under a black mask. The CoS seem to have morphed into something else now which seems ironic considering they bash on about over groups evolving from them. hmm.

Anyhow on the temple of set. As another religion that employs the use of magic of BECOMING and of being of the left hand path I'd say that is Satanic by nature. Remember that Satan is the personification of the left hand path.
_________________________
I'm not a believer... I'm an explorer.

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#10372 - 07/29/08 08:27 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: 97and107]
diabolus_rob Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Texas
I have tried to research the ToS. I do not expect others to do my work for me. However, information about the Temple on the internet is hard to come by and even harder to come by if you prefer information of the unbiased type.

I have a copy of the crystal tablet of set,i'd be willing to trade it for some other rare literature on Satanism.

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#10409 - 07/31/08 12:48 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Seraphyim]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
 Originally Posted By: Seraphyim
I myself am inclined to think not.


I'm under the same impression. You're not alone.

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#10444 - 08/02/08 12:08 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: diabolus_rob]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3113
 Originally Posted By: diabolus_rob
I have tried to research the ToS. I do not expect others to do my work for me. However, information about the Temple on the internet is hard to come by and even harder to come by if you prefer information of the unbiased type.

I have a copy of the crystal tablet of set,I'd be willing to trade it for some other rare literature on Satanism.

Are you sure about the crystal tablet of Set?
Can you send me that document or type it even so? Because I got the slight impression you are talking about Alchemy.

To even say more, I think we are talking about alchemy. As I have read in another reply next words were quoted: "As above so as below". In this case, it isn't the tablet of Set, but the Emerald table of Hermes.
In this case, the temple of set can be based on the Alchemical philosophy.

For the emerald table history and translations see: http://www.levity.com/alchemy/emerald.html
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#10454 - 08/03/08 05:39 AM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Dimitri]
diabolus_rob Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Originally Posted By: diabolus_rob
I have tried to research the ToS. I do not expect others to do my work for me. However, information about the Temple on the internet is hard to come by and even harder to come by if you prefer information of the unbiased type.

I have a copy of the crystal tablet of set,I'd be willing to trade it for some other rare literature on Satanism.

Are you sure about the crystal tablet of Set?
Can you send me that document or type it even so? Because I got the slight impression you are talking about Alchemy.

To even say more, I think we are talking about alchemy. As I have read in another reply next words were quoted: "As above so as below". In this case, it isn't the tablet of Set, but the Emerald table of Hermes.
In this case, the temple of set can be based on the Alchemical philosophy.

For the emerald table history and translations see: http://www.levity.com/alchemy/emerald.html


Wut the hell r u talking about?I'm speaking of Michael Aquinos essay on black magic.Its issued to members only.

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#10536 - 08/07/08 09:33 AM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: diabolus_rob]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3113
 Originally Posted By: diabolus_rob
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Originally Posted By: diabolus_rob
I have tried to research the ToS. I do not expect others to do my work for me. However, information about the Temple on the internet is hard to come by and even harder to come by if you prefer information of the unbiased type.

I have a copy of the crystal tablet of set,I'd be willing to trade it for some other rare literature on Satanism.

Are you sure about the crystal tablet of Set?
Can you send me that document or type it even so? Because I got the slight impression you are talking about Alchemy.

To even say more, I think we are talking about alchemy. As I have read in another reply next words were quoted: "As above so as below". In this case, it isn't the tablet of Set, but the Emerald table of Hermes.
In this case, the temple of set can be based on the Alchemical philosophy.

For the emerald table history and translations see: http://www.levity.com/alchemy/emerald.html


Wut the hell r u talking about?I'm speaking of Michael Aquinos essay on black magic.Its issued to members only.


At first: spellcheck please it is not because you are from texas and they speak english in a different way that you have to type the dialect.

And I'm just saying that some ideas within the temple of Set has similarities with alchemical ideas/philosophy. Perhaps I wasn't clear about that.


Edited by Dimitri (08/07/08 09:49 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#10653 - 08/13/08 02:32 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Samuel Satanas]
Matt Massacre Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
 Originally Posted By: Samuel Satanas
 Originally Posted By: Matt Massacre
I never meet Anton LaVey and didnt know him private, but I believe LaVeys ideology of the Church of Satan was never the CoS from today!

i hope everyone understand what i mean.


Agreed. Lavey was far deeper than Gilmore with his simple athesism under a black mask. The CoS seem to have morphed into something else now which seems ironic considering they bash on about over groups evolving from them. hmm.

Anyhow on the temple of set. As another religion that employs the use of magic of BECOMING and of being of the left hand path I'd say that is Satanic by nature. Remember that Satan is the personification of the left hand path.


In shorts words: The daily CoS under the leadership of Peter H. Gilmore and Peggy Nadramia is an extremly atheistic group and had nothing to do with the Satanism codiefied by LaVey....in my view.

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#11778 - 09/23/08 07:25 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Matt Massacre]
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
It seems that topic has been a little inactive last days... I hope I'm not wrong by posting in it.

I was curious about the Temple of Set and went on their website. Let's just read the very first lines of their "general information letter" : to them, human race is superior to any other known form of life because of a "sense of self-consciousness" (sic) only holded by it.

LaVeyan Satanism considers humans as nothing more than biped animals, "sometimes better, often worse than the ones walking on all fours", because human race had (and still has) such an high opinion of itself that our ancestors thought they could live without nature, and went apart (and were obviously wrong, y'all know). Well, the quoted sentence is not precisely what LaVey wrote but you know which sentence of TSB I'm talking about, and noone gives a damn about the precise quote anyway ;\)

So ToS are NOT LaVeyan satanists. That's a point. Well, you're going to tell me that all I wrote before was useless because if ToS were LaVeyan satanists, in fact Aquino would probably not have left CoS. But whatever.

What about saying whether ToS are satanists (in general meaning of the term) or not ? Anywho can call himself satanist. Theists, traditionnals, LaVeyans... that question can't be answered. If you call yourself satanist, you ARE satanist. What matters is WHICH Satanism. To me, the true one is LaVeyan, to other people it'll be another one... case made
_________________________
In the end everyone dies...

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#11783 - 09/24/08 07:01 AM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Impius]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Satanic paths bear a resemblance to the various denominations of Christianity--Episcopilian, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, etc. Different methods of worship/practice, yet they all call themselves Christians.

I'm not sure why some have such difficulty reconciling this concept. Perhaps because it bears a little too much resemblance to Christianity?
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#11788 - 09/24/08 02:30 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Nemesis]
Asmodeus Xaxam Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 17
Loc: Somerville TX. USA
I don't believe Setians can consider themselves Satanists. Satanists are anti-fundamentalists. Once you start believing in a higher power or a god. Be it Set or ortherwise, you become a fundamentalist. As Satanists we are our own gods. It's a pretty clear line. You cannot be both a Satanist and a fundamentalist. It's two opposites.
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#11807 - 09/25/08 05:52 AM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Asmodeus Xaxam]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
WTF? "Once you start believing in a higher power or a god you become a fundamentalist."

There's a definite distinction between a moderate and fundamentalist believer.

So yes, you can be a Satanist and also a fundamentalist.

Definition of the word 'fundamentalist' for you: strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles.

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