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#8442 - 05/06/08 07:05 PM Temple of Set...Satanists?
Seraphyim Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Fort Carson, Colorado
I myself am inclined to think not. Originally they were unquestioningly satanic but they have metamorphosed into something that is no longer satanic. Left Hand Path, yes. But Satanic, no.

That being said, I am a little bit surprised that there is still so much talk about them amongst Satanists. Why is that? Do some of you disagree with me and believe that the members of the Temple of Set are Satanists?
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#8444 - 05/06/08 07:20 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Seraphyim]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Well...

Most of us here are not card carrying CoS members. Some (I think) still are, and others have been. This site has some affiliation with the First Church. Others here (like myself) are unaffiliated devotees of the LHP, like minds, fellow travellers, and kindred spirits.

I think... we run more of a 'big tent' operation here. Feel free to express your views, just be mentally prepared to defend your position. I personally would love to attract some TOS members because I think they would have something to contribute.
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#8469 - 05/07/08 05:20 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Fist]
Seraphyim Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Fort Carson, Colorado
Thanks. Tell me, if you will, a little about the First Church of Satan.

There are at least two schools of thought on Anton LaVey (probably many more) Obviously the idea perpetrated by the CoS..that being that Anton LaVey never believed in Satan as a literally being, and the alternate idea of Michael Aquino that LaVey privately believed in a literal being known to him as Satan.

Which of those beliefs is true could be debated till the end of time. That is NOT the purpose of this thread.

What I am curious to know is which track the First Church of Satan takes..and Karla LaVey herself.
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#8473 - 05/07/08 05:49 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Seraphyim]
Xaulamyn Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Indiana
 Originally Posted By: Seraphyim
I myself am inclined to think not.


You're inclined to think whatever you want, and if that's the reality that you wish to live in, then that is your reality, but that, however, doesn't make it the reality for everyone else. What is real in your mind I can assure you is not what's real outside of your mind. You just THINK it is. That's the point. Thinking ISN'T the point. I'm sure there are others outside of the Temple of Set such as yourself who believe the same thing, but that just doesn't make it so for everyone else, and I'm sure there are those within the Temple of Set who would beg to differ, and I'm sure they know a bit more about themselves than you do about them. If you wish to deny them the slightest chance of thinking of themselves in a Satanic manner, then I'm sure they'd be just as comfortable with denying you the chance of thinking of yourself as, indeed, a "Satanist." Nevertheless, my point is basically . . . who cares what you think? And I can assure you that pretty much nobody does, particularly the Temple of Set and the individuals within it.

I would, however, make the suggestion to you that you refrain from making such general statements in such a fashion as this, if not for the most part because you've offered absolutely no evidence that the Temple of Set is not "Satanists." Which, by the way the Temple of Set cannot be a "Satanists", but it can be possibly "Satanic", but I assume you mean the individuals within it are not Satanists. And so, where is the evidence that all of those individuals within any such organization are not Satanists?

I know that this is simply what you "think", but if you're going to "think" then it helps to actually be able to THINK first. I hope that you're aware that that of which can be claimed or proved without evidence can also be disclaimed or disproved without evidence. That making such tautological statements as this absolutely contributed nothing to anything, and is a total waste of time. Oh, wow! You've thought! You've decided something! How grand! Why do we care? Why do I care? Especially since you seem to have pulled such a conclusion out your ass! How did you arrive at this grand hypothesis? Please enlighten me, because I'd really like to know!

Why would I like to know? Well, you know it has been such an impossible and pointless thing for all these years and as far as I can tell for the foreseeable future - to determine JUST WHAT a "real" Satanist is, that is. You know, it's the exact same debate Christians have, or Muslims, or Jews, and all of the followers of all those religions and all the rest and everyone else. Finally, someone has the end-all, be-all answer to WHO IS WHO and WHY IS WHY and you've got the supreme answer as to who qualifies as what and who! Oh, supreme arbiter of who is truly a Satanist!

I am "inclined to think" that your "theory" isn't going to stand the test of time. We're going to have to just see about that, aren't we? Only time can tell. We'll start with the process of dialectics, and of course we'll look at actual evidence, perhaps?

Some of the first questions I'd pose to you is thus, "What IS a "Satanist" to begin with, how did you arrive at that conclusion as to what is a Satanist, can you prove it, is it objective, is it subjectively objective, is it purely subjective? Who? What? When? Where? Why? How?. Etc." You know, Christians and just about everyone else have been speculating about what a "Satanist" is exactly for centuries.

 Originally Posted By: Seraphyim
Originally they were unquestioningly satanic


Unquestionably? Well, what if someone wants to question that? I sure as Hell just did. Again, how did you come to this conclusion? Do you have any evidence to support this? What if someone begs to differ? What is "Satanic", anyway? What's that mean? That's kind of vague isn't it? And, being "Satanic" is a lot different from being a "Satanist", isn't it? Well, in what way were they "unquestionably Satanic"? How has that changed? Those things that made them "unquestionably Satanic" are no longer there? Where did those "Satanic" qualities go to? Did they disappear? Did they just up one day and vanish? How did it go from "Satanic" to "[un]Satanic"? I'm just asking.


 Originally Posted By: Seraphyim
but they have metamorphosed into something that is no longer satanic.


According to whom? You? Again, what proof do you have of this? I mean, you have your tautological, straw-man statements, but what do they mean? What's the point in making them? In what way did they "metamorphose", who "metamorphosed", what do you mean "metamorphosed"? I assume you mean the WHOLE organization "metamorphosed", and that all of the individuals within did as well, that all of their so-called "teachings" did? How do you know this? What makes you say this? Where did you get your information? You know an "awful lot" about an organization that you're not in, that is so secretive and clandestine. What are you, psychic?

 Originally Posted By: Seraphyim
Left Hand Path, yes. But Satanic, no.


What's the Left Hand Path? How did you arrive at that conclusion, how do you know that they're LHP? Again, how come they're not "Satanic"? EXPLAIN, EXPLAIN, AND EXPLAIN! DEFEND YOUR THESIS! I seriously want to know.

 Originally Posted By: Seraphyim
That being said, I am a little bit surprised that there is still so much talk about them amongst Satanists.


And why are you surprised? I assume you also surprise yourself, since you're talking about the same damn thing? I dare not consider the ramifications that must have for you to be surprising yourself in such a fashion, but the answers as to that are for your shrink, and I dare not take a peek inside.


 Originally Posted By: Seraphyim
Why is that?


WHY IS THAT!? Why don't you tell me? I mean, you make a great case-study. I mean, you're the one talking about it and you're the one so surprised about what you're talking about. You don't know why you do what you do? Methinks you should address your shrink about that and I don't think it's a good idea to expose such a flaw to everyone else, especially on this forum. Why is it anymore surprising that Satanists would talk about it than it would be surprising that you would? You can, but Satanists can't? What, then?


 Originally Posted By: Seraphyim
Do some of you disagree with me and believe that the members of the Temple of Set are Satanists?


What's to disagree with? I mean, it isn't a matter of disagreement, is it? I mean, if someone were going to disagree with you it would be more like IGNORING you. You've said nothing of consequence. Supposing that A is A and facts are facts, then I would say that you've stated nothing but baseless, inept opinions of no importance and IF they are not just opinions, but are facts then you've sure made an unimpressive show of making that clear.

I'll just end this like this - that I'm so glad that there's finally someone like you to speak on behalf of ALL SETIANS as well as the Temple of Set. I mean, who would of thought that, especially being the case that no Setian speaks for any other Setian as such, and especially since even the Temple of Set itself DOESN'T speak for all Setians in such regards, that they've finally found someone of a caliber such as yourself to do all the thinking and talking and speaking on their behalf in such a way as you have presented here.

You've hinted at the fact elsewhere that you consider yourself a "future" Setian, that you'd maybe like to become a member and join the Temple of Set? As a matter of fact, since you call yourself a "future" Setian, then I assume that you think that you're INDEED a Setian? That you just haven't got credit as one yet? That it is inevitable? Maybe even that it's owed to you?

Well, in my opinion, and JUST maybe it's my opinion, you'd better disabuse yourself of the way you have been presenting yourself and behaving. How presumptuous and ridiculous you are. Mr. "Future" Setian, eh?

I, on the other hand speak for no one but myself. I think it wise for you to do the same, and for you to get control of yourself in these regards. Make sure to speak for yourself.

That being said, everyone makes mistakes.

As for me - I enjoy playing Devil's advocate pro bono.


Edited by Xaulamyn (05/07/08 06:08 PM)
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#8482 - 05/07/08 07:28 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Xaulamyn]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Just what did you add to the conversation?

Someone asked a question...
You didn't answer it, you just mocked his questions.
He is looking to learn and find out new information.

Granted some of the answers could be found just by using google or reading other posts here.

Its not a matter of being a devils advocate, its a matter of being an unnecessary ass.

Morg

Next, try again....
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#8483 - 05/07/08 07:34 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Morgan]
Xaulamyn Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Indiana
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Just what did you add to the conversation?

Someone asked a question...
You didn't answer it, you just mocked his questions.
He is looking to learn and find out new information.

Granted some of the answers could be found just by using google or reading other posts here.

Its not a matter of being a devils advocate, its a matter of being an unnecessary ass.

Morg

Next, try again....


If he had simply asked a question, then that would be fine. But, he didn't just ask a question. It was also accompanied with an answer, and I just think he should back it up.

I'm sure I wouldn't of "been an ass" about it if it weren't for the fact that, and maybe it's just me, this guy seems to think he is "entitled" to be a Setian, that he is "meant" to be one. He gives the impression that the Temple of Set "owes" him something, while he gives "nothing" in return.

That's all.


Edited by Xaulamyn (05/07/08 07:40 PM)
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#8484 - 05/07/08 07:42 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Xaulamyn]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Hey,

I think it was accompanied by his opinion.
I dont think his opinions are the be all of everything, but this is a forum where various opinions are discussed.

One of the things is to strive to accomplish and be what you want if you have the inner force of will and ability to achieve your desires.

He wants to join, then he should contact them, read the books, do the work. He is never going to get a straight answer from anyone other than a member who deals with prospectives member.

quoting Yoda
" Do or Do not, there is no try.."

otherwise, its all hot air.....

That being said...
Serap, please give us your definition of "left hand path" verses "Satanism".
That way we can understand the context of where you are coming from.
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Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#8485 - 05/07/08 07:45 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Morgan]
Xaulamyn Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Indiana
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Hey,

I think it was accompanied by his opinion.
I dont think his opinions are the be all of everything, but this is a forum where various opinions are discussed.

One of the things is to strive to accomplish and be what you want if you have the inner force of will and ability to achieve your desires.

He wants to join, then he should contact them, read the books, do the work. He is never going to get a straight answer from anyone other than a member who deals with prospectives member.

quoting Yoda
" Do or Do not, there is no try.."

otherwise, its all hot air.....



I agree with you, Morgan.
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#8514 - 05/08/08 05:50 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Xaulamyn]
Seraphyim Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Fort Carson, Colorado
And as the op...I agree that I gave no answer..simply an opinion.

I have tried to research the ToS. I do not expect others to do my work for me. However, information about the Temple on the internet is hard to come by and even harder to come by if you prefer information of the unbiased type.

Most of my information I have gotten from the Temple of Set website. Other information has come from the Church of Satan website and the Balanone's Temple of Set information page, Wikipedia, an old interview with Priestess Oz Set. Lilith Aquino did write a good article on the subject. But while the Temple spoke often about being the spiritual successor to The CoS but under the administration of Don Webb the Temple seemed to distance itself from it'd link to Satanism.

Either way it does not bother me. But, in the Book of The Coming Forth By Night, Set seemed to want to distance himself from the erroneous theologies that preceeded the remanifesting of his Temple.
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#8515 - 05/08/08 05:56 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Seraphyim]
Seraphyim Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Fort Carson, Colorado
Not so much hot air. The most effective and efficient way to join the Temple is to meet and get to know someone who is a priest or priestess in the Temple. Then they can get to know you and if they decide that you and the Temple are a good fit for each other they can sponser your membership. That is much better I think than writing blindly to the temple and trying to convince someone there that I am worthy of membership.
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#8520 - 05/08/08 07:10 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Seraphyim]
Xaulamyn Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Indiana
It's OzTech, not Oz Set.
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#8522 - 05/08/08 08:48 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Xaulamyn]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Those who try to make themselves seem in the know usually are the furthest from knowing... Those who bitch about something usually complain about it because they themselves do it...

[Xaulamyn] It's the first installment of Gary Pullman's children's fantasy trilogy _His Dark Materials_.
[ta2zz] oh
[Mequa] I have that trilogy, the first book is called Northern Lights.
[Xaulamyn] An atheistic (and Satanic I must say) take on _Lord of the Rings_ and _Chronicles of Narnia_.
[ta2zz] I didnt know lord of the rings was very religious
[Mequa] And His Dark Materials is by Philip Pullman
[Xaulamyn] Yes, I meant Philip, thank you.

Now would you like to go on playing Mr. Knowitall?

~T~

I think you are a troll nothing more...
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#8523 - 05/08/08 09:01 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: ta2zz]
Xaulamyn Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Indiana
Your obsession with me continues.

Oh, yes! I don't know Gary Pullman's name!? Bullshit.

It's called a typo.

And you know, every once in a while I do that in person. You know, kind of like our grandmas do - get names confused.

Anyway, I'm responding only because how funny you are.

This is an unhealthy obsession you have with me - to go through such logs and look for every tiny little stupid thing and - ugh. I am vexed.

I've come to the conclusion you're a senile retard. As far as Satanism is concerned though - you, Ta2zz - ARE NOT a Satanist.

You're a piece of shit and a waste of time. A fucking freak, a geek, and a silly creep.

You fucking wastrel. Quit annoying the fuck out of me - constantly. You're just like a Christian. Next thing you know you'll be outside my window stalking me.

I assume next you'll be looking though my preschool files looking for where I spelled a word wrong.

What a little bitch.

I grow impatient with your harassment.

Quit trolling me, troll.

I know your game. To try to do everything you can to piss me off in an attempt to get me banned.


Edited by Xaulamyn (05/08/08 09:05 PM)
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#8552 - 05/09/08 05:06 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Xaulamyn]
Seraphyim Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Fort Carson, Colorado
My apologies to Oz Tech. I knew that..but I hadn't watched the video recently and I made a mistake.
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#9376 - 06/03/08 10:25 PM Re: Temple of Set...Satanists? [Re: Seraphyim]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 268
Loc: New Mexico
He used to hang out at occultforums.com a few years ago before it went belly up...trapezoid...

Him, meaning, the current head of Temple of Set. He struck me as a bit of a preacher and I ignored him mostly.

Any kind of organization rubs me the wrong way most of the time. I have a loose affiliation with one Satanic organization but I keep it to myself. It's not a bloody popularity club...

Temple of Set...hard to say...mostly it just seems like a drinking club or a moneymaker, nothing special really. they have their little handshakes and odd g reetings, the little boy's secret clubhouse all over again. Nothing real special.

Satanists don't belong to any extremist organization, that's for sure. We're loners through and through....we come together only for the sake of our own idiosyncracies and for the mating game, generally...I like to think there's a lot of love involved, too. It seems so...well, illogical, grouping together like this. Love is the only thing I can imagine that is so blatantly and obscenely insane as to encourage that. Or perhaps we're all just scoundrels plotting to take over the world as the xians would have everyone believe.

edit:

okay not the head, i just looked it up, "assistant director"



Edited by 97and107 (06/03/08 10:37 PM)

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