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#8445 - 05/06/08 07:40 PM Something for the Noobs
Octavius Offline
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#8446 - 05/06/08 07:55 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
Very nice...

Thank you...

~T~
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#8449 - 05/06/08 10:23 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: ta2zz]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
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Very nice video. As an old timer, for me personally, you didn't shed anything new. However, that is not a slam on what you created. Your title clearly stated for "noobs". I encourage you to continue with this, perhaps even creating a video series. It was for me, a refreshing insight into long held beliefs, that have been buried and forgotten. Sometimes we need to revisit that area that we have ingrained in us but forgotten why. Thank you. The users that are just beginning their path would be well advised to pay attention and revisit this post from time to time.
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#8456 - 05/07/08 01:15 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: fakepropht]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Very nice indeed.

I would definately consider myself a relative noob to Satanism> Even if I've always been somewhat 'Satanic' I have only been aware of what it's really all about a few years now, so I enjoyed being about to see that I am on the right track.

I think it would be great if you continued to make more of these and highly recommend it to any other 'newbies'.

Thanks,

Zeph
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#8457 - 05/07/08 04:43 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
psiren Offline
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Thank you from a noob. Most of what you said is how I see things although I do have the issue of hating on christianity and islam which may not be the most productive way to go.
Well, thanks again, this was an interesting video and at the risk of sounding like a suck-ass, you have a great voice for it. Compliments where compliments are due.

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#8460 - 05/07/08 07:00 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: psiren]
Nemesis Offline
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That was fantastic, Octavius, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm looking forward to your next video post.
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#8478 - 05/07/08 06:43 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Nemesis]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Very nice. Good job.
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#8531 - 05/08/08 10:26 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Asmedious]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Well done. Honestly, what more could I say?
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#8835 - 05/19/08 10:30 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Fist]
doctorsaige Offline
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Registered: 05/13/08
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Hi,, thank you very much. I'm very new, and had lots of questions which basically were answered here. I was waiting to find the answers instead of yanking onto too many coat tails too quickly.. I try to tread lightly being new, and I can appreciate this vid stepping in and meeting me with the answers. Very Cool!
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#10325 - 07/22/08 10:34 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: doctorsaige]
Xande Offline
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This is outstanding. I want to think you for the wealth of information you've provided, and I also want to thank you for the time you spent creating it. Your style of speaking is very relaxed and really helps with the absorption of the information. You have a certain air of humility that stands in stark contrast to the mindless elitism easily encountered in various other Satanic hotspots.
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#10458 - 08/03/08 03:31 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Xande]
SevenDeadlySins Offline
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Very cool vid. I must say I was impressed. *applause*
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#10474 - 08/04/08 03:54 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: SevenDeadlySins]
Damian Offline
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Registered: 07/30/08
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Loc: Salem Mass
Very well said,i really enjoyed it.Being an older Satanist it really put things into perspective.I Love when something makes me think.I look forward to more of your work, Damian Blackthorne.
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#10693 - 08/15/08 10:39 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Damian]
The Zebu Offline
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Very nice and well-presented! Already heard most of it before, but you did a commendable job of summing much of it up.
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#10897 - 08/22/08 06:52 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: The Zebu]
harrison Offline
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Registered: 08/07/08
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that was such a great video,dude you rock. i cant wait untill your next one.
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#12507 - 10/11/08 07:02 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: harrison]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Hmmm..

A few good points. however..

Most of this is just opinion, and has very little to do with Satanism.
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#12510 - 10/11/08 07:32 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
Octavius Offline
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Care to qualify your criticism with specifics? I'm interested to hear your opinions on why this has nothing to do with Satanism as you see it.

Octavius
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#12518 - 10/11/08 07:52 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
Dan_Dread Offline
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You may have misunderstood, my words were not meant as a criticism 'per say'.

I would go so far as to say most of your opinions are Satanic,(despite whatever obvious sour grapes you carry against the core materials of Satanism), but they aren't Satanism, which is clearly defined in The Satanic Bible already.

It is my opinion that if one can not extrapolate what Satanism is from TSB, any and all further clarification is wasted.

Satanists are born, not made. Most will never get it.
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#12521 - 10/11/08 08:06 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
blsk Offline
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Thank you. Very informative. I love the nine points of mastery. As I recall I have never heard them. I also like your presentation and reading skills. Such things when done correctly demand respect and are crucial to the success of a debate or conversation. So thank you for that and I look forward to more. Thank you for your time.
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#12543 - 10/12/08 12:00 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
Octavius Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
You may have misunderstood, my words were not meant as a criticism 'per say'.

I would go so far as to say most of your opinions are Satanic,(despite whatever obvious sour grapes you carry against the core materials of Satanism), but they aren't Satanism, which is clearly defined in The Satanic Bible already.

It is my opinion that if one can not extrapolate what Satanism is from TSB, any and all further clarification is wasted.


Satanists are born, not made. Most will never get it.





I view the Satanic Bible as a springboard. It cannot be the beginning and the end of Satanic thought. I have no "sour grapes" carried against the core materials set forth by the SB, but it only begins to define Satanism. Naturally, this is my personal experience. For others, the SB may well be the new Gospel. But to categorize it as such is a disservice to the book itself, and to Uncle Anton. At least for me. Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate it.


Edited by Octavius (10/12/08 12:02 AM)
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#12545 - 10/12/08 12:20 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
Dan_Dread Offline
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The way I see it, Satanism is more of a descriptor for a pre-existing type of person than a philosophy per say. You agree with TSB or you don't. There is no gospel that wasn't already in your sinews and your bones.

I don't really feel that there is anything left to say on that core thing. Ok, we all agree on these core principles, now what?
Do stuff from a Satanic perspective. Why not? Thats productive.
What isnt productive is trying to further grow the concept of Satanism itself.It doesn't need any 'new stuff' That just creates division, confusion, and obfuscation.
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#12578 - 10/12/08 10:56 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
Octavius Offline
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So Satanism has gone as far as it can in your opinion? Well, you are entitled you your opinion, however myopic it may seem. It would seem to me that an attitude of stagnancy would be counter-productive to the satanic mind.

(...and it's spelled 'per se.')
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#12583 - 10/13/08 01:21 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
Dan_Dread Offline
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You are confusing Satanism itself with what individual Satanists do. You aren't Satanism. Satanism isn't you.
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#12584 - 10/13/08 01:25 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dan_Dread Offline
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In fact, I think you have it completely backwards. The more you try to further define Satanism, the more narrow and constricting it becomes. Satanism is bare bones philosophy for a reason. You are slowly choking it off and eliminating wiggle room for real growth every time you try to add something to it.

You have your opinions, I have mine. please do not try to pass off opinions as Satanism, when Satanic will do.
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#12592 - 10/13/08 11:20 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
Kon Offline
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I was under the impression that Satanism as you're describing it is called Traditional Laveyan Satanism dude.

You can't discredit Octavius simply because you've never actually read these beliefs in your "manual" the Satanic Bible, unless this forum is ONLY for the strictly Laveyan. If it is I should have been banned long ago.

Even though I understand exactly what you mean by suffocating the cause for lack of production and I also disagree with almost everything Octavius has chosen to express, but for different reasons.
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#12600 - 10/13/08 04:02 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Kon]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Using the words traditional or LaVeyan or modern in conjunction with Satanism is redundant.

The appearance of these words are a sure demarcation the author doesn't quite get it.
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#12601 - 10/13/08 04:07 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Just as a note, and for the record, I actually agreed with just about everything Octavius said in his video.

My only issue here is that I feel the line between what Satanism is and what Satanists do has been blurred.
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#12609 - 10/13/08 06:55 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
Fabiano Offline
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Posts: 374
Well, there is a lot to say on the initial subject (started in Aug) and on the thread itself (reactivated by DD).

A preliminary remark: as I'm not an english native speaker I could have missed or misunderstood some parts of the Octavius' speach. Sorry for that...

First it makes me smile to hear Octavius saying "Our beliefs mus be questionned" and seeing nobody questionning what was just said. Everybody just simply agrees, not putting in question even a single point. Is it so "just", so "true" that there is nothhing to say?

At least DD Started chanlleging the Satanist Octavius is. That's not what he advised in the beggining of his speach after all?
Aren't we here for challenging each others, thus "putting our beliefs in question"?

I do not see any intent of discrediting or hurting anybody in DD posts.

2nd point is about the definition of Satanism. Many post are just "waste of time" due to unaligned or multiple acceptations or definition of Satanism. From the broader/wider acceptation (as in "there are as many forms of Satanism than there are Satanists" from the most reduced/specialised (as in "Satanism is what described in TSB, no more no less" or "Satanism is about worshiping the devil" - seen in anothoer thread).
Might be more clear to use Satanism for the wide acceptation and "Theist Satanism" or "LaVey's Satanism" for less confusion.
Saying Theist Satanists are not Satanist it stricly taken a non-sense!

This was for the thread.

Let's come back to the video.

I agree with the 7 signs of spiritual slavery. This describes quite well the principles applyied in many sectarian movements. Good memory refresh.

Regarding the 9 points, there all constructed as two-folded sentences ending with a "logical" conclusion. However, I think these should be questionned.

Points 2, 3 & Nine have been already discussed by philosophers (Bergson) or Buddhists (views are close to the buddhist school of "the sole thought".).
In brief, it defends the point of view that reality exists only as a perception in some individual.

I however find assertions like "good an evil exist only in the mind of the individual" (N°2) a little bit dangerous if misunderstood. We should not fall in the simplistic "do what you want"...

N°4 : it's true that's the indiv. is free to act or not. Concluding he is only responsible for his situation is may be a to quick shortcut. What about the context, the environment, the good & bad surprises of life ?

N°5 Pain is not necessary for understanding principles ==> No purpose for human suffereing. Again, quikly concluded.
What about the suffering for somthing else that teaching/understanding principles?
If pain is not necessary, it does not mean it's "forbidden", so it could be used and maybe useful.

What about compassion rituals where you cry with tears? Are you not suffering? Is it useless ?

N7° Faith is ... ==> Truth can be found only through reason. What's thruth? What about intuition ?

N°8 "The Self & the body". This old dual view of the human. Well, saying that the body is just a tool of the self is just an opinion amongst many other ones (and probably not the most original). Some view the self as a consequence of the body (all is explainable by electric signals and chimic reactions in the brain and the body). This is a very "genetic / mechanistic" view but it is sustainable. In this perspective, immortalising the body will de facto immortalise the self (providing you can stop the body degradation at one point in time).
Let's come back to your view. Imortality is throught immortilising the Self. You have the instruction mnual for immortilising the Self? In addition the self = identity+ego. What are identity & ego?
Finally, is it not in contradiction with point 1 saying that "there is nothing after death"?


This being said Octavius, I hope you will accept my comments as a challenge rather than as criticism.

I have no issue in accepting at the same time that "I'm born as a Satanist" and "that I should question myself". Being a Satanist is not against bettering oneself !

And I think I'm a Satanist because there is a part of me who always refused Spiritual Slavery (thus any kind of slavery).
I like Laveyan Satanism because Satanists are free to live their Satanism as they want. Refering to TSB is good to place the context, for precising what "kind of Satanism" it's about. Surely not for taking it to the letter!. Adding other stuff, bringing new ideas is good to challenge ourselves, but surely not for making a bigger bible that would be taken again to the letter !
We should also avoid loosing ourselve in the complexity and intricity of philosophical, metaphisical or "theological" thoughts.

Listen to your gut-feelings, we're just animals after all !



Edited by Fabiano (10/13/08 07:01 PM)

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#12613 - 10/13/08 07:54 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Fabiano]
Kon Offline
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Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 86
Loc: Berlin, Germany
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Using the words traditional or LaVeyan or modern in conjunction with Satanism is redundant.

The appearance of these words are a sure demarcation the author doesn't quite get it.



This tells me that either you're older than me, or that you're a devout Laveyan follower. Either way you've disproved no one.

The hypocrisy is so thick in your words a n00b could call you out. Most you've written have been opinions, perhaps the opinions of an experienced satanic follower, but if you boil batshit and goat balls for a month you still have nothing worth eating.

I'm not a Laveyan Satanist, nor do I believe your BS about you knowing more than I about anything philosophical.

You would piss yourself....
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#12619 - 10/13/08 08:27 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Kon]
Octavius Offline
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Well, I'm certainly glad this is creating some discussion other than the usual tripe that's been floating around here. Yes, the views I presented most certainly should be challenged, and I'm very glad to see that they are. I'm glad to see I got some of you thinking.

The argument of the TSB and LaVeyan Satanism being "good enough" is ludicrous in my opinion. If it was, then the CoS would have crumbled under it's own shortcomings long ago...some may argue it did. But without further thought and new ideas on Satanism, we wouldn't have the Temple of Set, Order of The Nine Angles, FCoS, Satanic Empire, FSC, Luciferianism, etc. Again, it's the nature of Satanism to take nothing at face value. Challenge it all and create your own world. If the Satanic Bible is good enough, then we're no better than any other organized religion or philosophy that calls it's tenets infallible. That's just not acceptable if we're to consider ourselves "elite" as LaVey decries.

As for me "not getting it"...

That's quite true if you compare what I've presented against an infallible set of Satanic directives. In that respect, then the CoS needs you! Goose-step on over and register on the CoS's forum where you can pander to others who like to keep their minds locked in mired and misinterpreted dogma. Their demands for tithing and inability to reinterpret anything that Uncle Anton wrote only solidifies them as sycophants with no agenda other than to worship a dead man as God. Sound familiar?

This isn't to say that what I've presented is any kind of new Gospel. Take from it what you will. My intent is to get people looking outside the Black Book at other possibilities, especially in esoteric and metaphysical ways. Check out my other two episodes for more on that.

What "Satanism is" and what "Satanists do" is a poor argument in semantics. No one defines what Satanists do. We do what serves our own individual best interests. There's nothing "bare-bones" about Satanism unless you choose not to look past the printed word.

More on this to come, I'm sure. Thanks for all the replies.

Octavius
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#12625 - 10/13/08 08:50 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Ok Octavius. Do you think you are going to change Satanism into something else? What exactly do you feel is 'wrong' with it that you think needs changing?

Your comments about LaVey worship were a pretty low blow. Do you really feel anyone that doesn't want to change Satanism into something else is a sycophant that wants to worship a dead man as a god? Give me a break!

And the 'semantics' of my 'argument' (statement) about blurring the line between what satanists do and what Satanism is were not 'poor'
For instance. You like to make videos with your opinions about Satanism. That is what you, a Satanist, are doing. What you are not doing is changing what Satanism 'is' in any way, shape, or form.
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#12630 - 10/13/08 10:17 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
Octavius Offline
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I already have changed Satanism for many people. I haven't needed your approval thus far and don't expect I'll need it going forward.

Here's a few things I think are wrong with Satanism...

The undue attention that Abrahamic religions get from Satanists.
Corpsepaint/Black Metal
Forum/Keyboard Warriors
LaVey worship
Closed-minded chest-puffing egotists who can't spell or construct a coherent sentence.
Shock value for the sake of attention (baphomet pendents, inverted crosses, skulls, demons, swastikas, etc.)
Peter Gilmore
Boyd Rice
Richard Ramirez
Varg Vikernes
The Beasts of Satan
Maxine Deitrich
Dawn Perlmutter
Marilyn Manson
Joe Fiorella
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#12632 - 10/13/08 10:25 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
BloodHorn Offline
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Registered: 10/02/08
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Loc: Stockbridge Ga
Arrogance makes some people feel they are the only and best on this earth so to speak. And to think i almost had respect for this guy.
I am disgusted by this post.
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#12633 - 10/13/08 10:37 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: BloodHorn]
Octavius Offline
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Arrogance certainly plays a part. For shit's sake, we Satanists! I'm better than a lot of people, and I know that a lot of people are better than me. Wisdom comes with knowing who isn't worth your time and who can teach you something. I'm never above someone who can show me a new way of thinking or pointing out where my own thinking is skewed.
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#12635 - 10/13/08 10:40 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
BloodHorn Offline
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Loc: Stockbridge Ga
Well i thought you may teach me something but your last post before this one has turned me off to you man. I have excepted that i am not very smart, But I can learn. I just dunno if it will be from you.. I just dunno.
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#12637 - 10/13/08 11:00 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Octavius
I already have changed Satanism for many people.

Heh. You really believe that?


 Quote:

Here's a few things I think are wrong with Satanism...

The undue attention that Abrahamic religions get from Satanists.
Corpsepaint/Black Metal
Forum/Keyboard Warriors
LaVey worship
Closed-minded chest-puffing egotists who can't spell or construct a coherent sentence.
Shock value for the sake of attention (baphomet pendents, inverted crosses, skulls, demons, swastikas, etc.)
Peter Gilmore
Boyd Rice
Richard Ramirez
Varg Vikernes
The Beasts of Satan
Maxine Deitrich
Dawn Perlmutter
Marilyn Manson
Joe Fiorella

So..uhh ya. That's a list of things you don't like. So basically you want 'Satanism' to reflect all of your opinions.

Look's to me like you are more interested in starting a cult of personality than anything. Good luck with that \:\)
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#13859 - 11/04/08 03:43 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
AnOpenHand Offline
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I've changed Satanism for many people?
What does that mean?
I have no idea?
Please educate and enlighten me oh enwisended one...
Sounds like a crock of prima donna shit to me
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#13881 - 11/04/08 11:04 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: AnOpenHand]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
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You weren't the one he replied to. Hence the reason it didn't make sense. Please feel free to insert your other foot in your mouth.
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#18966 - 01/26/09 08:37 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
Gabby Offline
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Is Satanism like an organized religion? I am getting this impression from a lot of Satanists on this forum. It might not be mainstream, but I imagine there could be different sects of Satanism like in Christianity or any faith based religion.

I was surprised in reading the book that The Satanic Bible was more like a philosophy based religion than a faith based one.

I could be wrong. I mentioned Satanism in a pagan chatroom. I don't remember what some said, but apparently it's something that most people have trouble defining Satanism even to themselves. It's good to see people defining it.


Is Satan a figure that originated in Christianity? Hm. Maybe the word Satan is used for 'Satanism' because Christianity was seen by Anton LaVey as utter brainwashing and folly, so he sought to change that. I don't know everything behind the book's origins, only what I read from it. I do think that if some of the views of Satanists are to wipe out the population of people with diseases and all that, then Satanism is not for me.
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#18969 - 01/26/09 10:39 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
I'm very happy this video came up and enjoyed watching. I agree with much of what you said in particular the context of your statement "To approach everything with an agnostic point of view...", which I feel is one of the most important tools in continuing one's development in personnel honesty and knowledge. I do agree that "Challenging everything in life is a basic tenant of Satanism."
Thank you.
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#37651 - 04/16/10 03:44 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: The AntiChris]
immortal1 Offline
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Posts: 8
Loc: Northern Virginia
What Octavius presents in his video is NOT Satanism...He clearly states that at the beginning by calling his belief system "Autotheism". Anyone who knows etymologies should know what that means, and that is basically what Satanism teaches(LeVeyan or otherwise)...to be your own God!
The video is "...for the noobs", which I am. However, I know that it will be of great educational value for many vets on this site also. The information Octavius provides is both succinct and well structured, providing a solid logical framework for challenging, questioning, and understanding the topics discussed in this forum.
Octavius' post of his "Not Cool List" seems somewhat out of character for him, in contrast with how calm, cool, and collected he is in his video. I do agree with much of what is on your list, even though I am a big black metal fan (don't wear corpsepaint though). But he is entitled to his opinion, as are we all.
Dan, as for you, I have not read a single post from you that is not completely narrow-minded and negative. Do you have nothing of benefit to add to this forum other than griping and being a "No" Man? And as for Satanists being born not made, that is about the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Surely genetics and disposition play a part, but so does environment, interests, and culture.

"I'm a goddamn heretic, not a god-fearing lunatic.
It's become my obsession, to treat God like an infection"
-Slayer

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#37653 - 04/16/10 05:52 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: immortal1]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Irony, using a quote stating you are a heretic written/sung by a self proclaimed Catholic.

You registered on 1/20/10, you don't know Octavius long enough to know what is in or out of his character.

What Dan adds or doesn't to this forum is sure as shit not up to you. It doesn't matter if you don't see any benefits at all. If you don't like what he has to say, don't read what he writes.

As for Satanist's being born not made.
Whatever, there are enough posts on this matter at almost 6am.
Either you agree or you don't.
Those that believe it is in you won't change their minds.
Those that think it can be grown/adapted, like you seem to believe, won't change your mind either.

THE THING IS, IF YOU ARE BORN A SATANIST, YOU REALLY DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK ABOUT IT. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE, AND DON'T CARE ABOUT CHANGING OR PREACHING TO ANYONE ABOUT IT.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#37658 - 04/16/10 08:34 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Morgan]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:
Dan, as for you, I have not read a single post from you that is not completely narrow-minded and negative. Do you have nothing of benefit to add to this forum other than griping and being a "No" Man? And as for Satanists being born not made, that is about the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Surely genetics and disposition play a part, but so does environment, interests, and culture.


Look son, I have qualified myself as a Satanist for over 20 years, and have attained a level of understanding that you never will. Plenty of newbs have come along, such as yourself, with big ideas about what Satanism should be and what is and is not Satanic. Like them, nobody cares what you have to say, and as Satanism was not marred or changed by them, nor will you impact it. I would bet in two months you will be on a wiccan or christian forum raising the same sort of asinine objections, still unsure of who you are.Meanwhile, I'll still be here, and I'm sure I won't even remember you, nor will anyone else.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#37662 - 04/16/10 12:06 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
Chandler Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 36
I personally can think of nothing more Satanic than changing Satanism to suit yourself. One of the most fundamental aspects of Satanism is the recognition of the self as God. Respect for the self as God is much more important than respect for the Church of Satan as an institution, or respect for the teaching of the Satanic Bible. It is supposedly the character of Satan who inspires these thoughts anyway. Satanism is the philosophy of Satan. It is a philosophy which would lead the individual to revolt against God, or whatever is the ruling principle of the status quo.

If Anton LaVey is to be taken as an example, then it should be noted that all he did was take an existing idea, "Satanism" (even though it wasn't an existing religion), and modify it to suit himself. To regard the opinions of Anton LaVey as constituting Satanism is to ignore the principle that motivated LaVey to pass his own opinions off as a religion in the first place.

And that principle is autotheism, or suitheism: the elevation of the self to the level of God in one's own system of values.

Ideas like "Satanists are born and not made" and "indulgence not compulsion", these are the opinions of Anton LaVey. To adopt these views contrary to your own nature in order to be definable as a Satanist is to fundamentally alienate yourself from the archetype of Satan, not to mention the real philosophy of Anton LaVey.

To follow Anton LaVey is ironic, but it is an irony at one's own expense and not his. The Satanic Bible is written in such a way as to encourage people to "be more like Anton". But those who really "get it", are more likely to write their own Bible, and I think Anton would have respected these a lot more, however silently.

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#37664 - 04/16/10 01:05 PM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Chandler Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 36
Just because someone used the word "Satanism" in a particular way doesn't give them a copyright on its definition. There are many elements in LaVeyan Satanism that are inessential to the idea of Satanism. "Satanism" refers us to Satan, not to Anton LaVey. The question in determining what Satanism means is to determine what Satan means, not to determine what someone once said Satanism should mean. And when we refer ourselves to Satan we get a mythological character who possessed certain virtues and represented certain ideas. I see his elevation of himself to the office of God as being important. So when I say Satanism I refer to autotheism and everything that entails. Just because someone older than me came around first and said that he wanted Satanism to mean something, doesn't mean I have to go along with it. Yes, this leads to division in the meaning of Satanism. Most philosophies have this same problem.
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#37703 - 04/17/10 12:14 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
immortal1 Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/20/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Northern Virginia
[quote=Dan_Dread]
 Quote:
Look son, I have qualified myself as a Satanist for over 20 years, and have attained a level of understanding that you never will. Plenty of newbs have come along, such as yourself, with big ideas about what Satanism should be and what is and is not Satanic. Like them, nobody cares what you have to say, and as Satanism was not marred or changed by them, nor will you impact it. I would bet in two months you will be on a wiccan or christian forum raising the same sort of asinine objections, still unsure of who you are. Meanwhile, I'll still be here, and I'm sure I won't even remember you, nor will anyone else.


This is in reply to both Morgan and Dan. Let me start by stating that this forum is for people to discuss things related to Satanism. People post things to DISCUSS and EXCHANGE ideas, to maybe learn something new or bounce their new ideas off someone they respect. I am not trying, nor will I ever try, to change your mind or anyone else's. I am quite sure of my beliefs, as are you, but unlike you I seem to be able to not unreasonably bash every single thing that gets posted. I have no clue why you even bother to be a member of this forum. If you can please enlighten me, I would love to know \:\)
Your feined superiority is at best amusing to me. That you have "attained a level of understanding that [I] never will" makes me laugh. What kind of "understanding" that is has not been made clear and since you have nothing to prove to anyone, you offer no fact, proof, or otherwise to back up this blanket statement. I also see a disconnect in your thinking: you have gained this heightened level of understanding but yet possess an extremely narrow-minded viewpoint. People, you, me, or anyone else cannot learn of gain understanding through thinking that you alone possess the answers.
Morgan stated that if I don't like what you write, then I should ignore you, change the channel. This is a suggestion, but it seems odd to me that I am singled out as the offender in this case. We all could take Morgan's advice and just not read anything on here that we don't like or agree with. That's not very Satanic, would you not agree? I have always questioned and challenged ideas and theories, and this is a fundamental tenet of Satanism, and have been doing this well before I ever thought of myself as a Satanist. I am simply exercising my opinions, as are all who post on this forum. Due to the nature and subject matter of this forum, which is Satanism (theology and philosophy mainly), people are naturally going to disagree and there will be posts that rub others the wrong way. But it is only through reading and responding to what others think that one will gain and sort of "heightened level of understanding". I will continue to participate in this forum, and with much enjoyment. And if I disagree with something, I will air my disagreement through a post, just like everyone else on here. This forum is already turning out to be so much better than I thought it would be. Learning about people, social anthropolgy, is interesting and the knowledge one can gain from it is priceless.
Morgan, the quote I used was written, yes, by Tom Araya of Slayer, who has stated he is a Catholic. It is still a great line in a great song. That's why I put it in there. I think you read a little too much into it, though. The SONG, written in first person, states that the subject of the song is claiming to be a heretic. I am not claiming to be on. For one to be a heretic, one must first belong to a church. It is only then that one can commit heresy against it. But that's just semantics and not a lot of fun.
Moving on, there seems to be quite a bit of the "I'm set in my beliefs, and so are all TRUE (meaning older) Satanists, so why bother posting or reading anything that disagrees with what I believe. I am soooo superior to you that you will never alter my thinking or change what I believe." If people bowed to this weak intimidation, this forum would be empty of posts. I think it is YOU who maybe don't get anything from this forum because, as you have stated, you have it all figured out. Sounds to me like there is nothing more for you to learn, so participating in this forum sounds like a waste of your time.
Oh, and last of all, Dan, calling someone "son" where I'm from will get your ass beat unless it is one's father saying it. Maybe you know this and aimed this disrespect at me. Dem fightin' words, that's for sure. Easy to hide behind a computer monitor and say shit like that.
Still and yet, I hope everyone enjoys their weekend! Looking forward to more interesting dialogue and potent banter. Good night.

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#37711 - 04/17/10 02:40 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: immortal1]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1722
Loc: New York
I have spent years thinking about the “Born not made” issue. (No not all in one sitting), and after considering myself a Satanist for well over 20 years, I find myself siding with the ones who believe that Satanists are born. The subject has been covered here many times. I am open to the possibility of changing my mind on the matter at some point, but although there have been many good arguments presented against that idea, I haven’t yet seen any arguments that would do it for me as of yet.

Speaking just for myself as an “older Satanist,” it’s not that I am so set in my ways that I believe that I know everything about Satanism, or that I can never learn anything new, but I have seen just about every argument, suggestion, discussion that is out there when it comes to the Left hand path and it gets tiresome and boring to rehash it all every time someone thinks that they have an original idea.

I can also understand someone who has been involved in Satanism for many years lashing out at a “newbie,” who proclaims that an idea which is accepted by a large percentage of experienced satanists is ludicrous.

I do believe that Satanism is a philosophy that can be bent and molded to fit ones personal ideals, but there is a big difference between bending and molding, and breaking up completely.

Regarding the question as to why some of us who no longer feel that we have anything new to contribute or anything new to learn about Satanism still come here; is because although we are no longer searching and trying to find our way, we do enjoy the company of others whom we feel have reached that same point in their lives. We enjoy discussing and sharing ideas that aren’t directly related to the philosophy itself, while at the same time knowing that whatever the subject is at hand, it is still a Satanic point of view. Even if it doesn’t necessarily agree with our own personal Satanic view.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#37712 - 04/17/10 02:52 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: immortal1]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Oh shut up..seriously. You come in here bringing up my name in a long dead thread and deliver a weak ass attempt at assassinating my character, then proceed to whine and cry that message boards are for exchanging ideas and not 'bashing'. Hypocrite much?

And the fact that you find me to be 'narrow minded' for reasons you choose to keep to yourself, (I would guess because I do not possess the all inclusive egalitarian views expected by many that come in here dragging their enormous sense of entitlement behind them) really means less than nothing to me. Who are you? what understanding have you demonstrated? Seems to me like you are just another wannabe internet tough guy. Now why don't you step off my dick, newb, and actually contribute something.

_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#37773 - 04/18/10 03:22 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
Doomsage680 Offline
member


Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 111
Loc: NJ, USA
Well, I can definitely say that I enjoyed the video, it brought up a lot of relevant points. I was also dismayed to see Marilyn Manson listed as a "problem" with Satanism, since I think he reasonably represents his views and is quite well spoken. Being liked by the Church doesn't hurt too much either. He has made no attempt to capitalize on it, and since he's never really claimed Satanism, it's not like he's misrepresenting it.

Another problem listed was keyboard warriors. We've definitely seen that somewhere. Putting Octavius' later post aside, I think the video draws from Satanism and certainly makes some Satanically minded conclusions.

immortal1, I don't like everything Dan_Dread says but he understands Satanism a lot better than most, and Morgan is unforgivingly critical (in a sort of restrained way, I think) to anyone who makes themself a target. Her point is valid.

As for Satanism being naturally born, I think the argument is based on natural disposition. Otherwise, consider yourself someone who learned it later in life. It's not bad. Don't put much stock in it, since the most anyone can do is take the philosophy with them forward into life. It's nice to think that many of us were born Satanists, or that it doesn't matter, but I think the difference is in how easily one approaches decisions in life with a Satanic mindset.

Now that we've all postured ourselves into petrified versions of what "Satanism really is", I encourage Octavius to make these videos a series. And a little clarification as to what "changing Satanism for many people" might have meant, as I think I missed what was meant by that.
_________________________
"I who have nothing but the comfort of my sins"
- Vinny Paz

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#37774 - 04/18/10 04:05 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Octavius]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
Hey Octavius!

I was just browsing and stumbled on this video / thread and wanted to say I enjoyed it, thanks!

I was wondering if you could state your sorce for the "9 Points of Self Mastery" and "7 signs of Spiritual Slavery". I tried to google those phrases and came up empty. If they're here in the forums I was not able to get any results.

I find them to be interresting and would like to read more up on them. I know this reply is close to 2 years late but I see some are still trying to beat eachother up over replys.
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

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#37787 - 04/18/10 09:49 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Wicked Satanist]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
As I mentioned in the original video, the original authors wish to remain anonymous. I am respecting their wishes. Suffice to say that the 9 points of Mastery and the 7 Signs of Spiritual Slavery were part of a failed experiment. They still hold their own merit and I still think they're valuable.

If you enjoyed the video, I made two others which are in the Video Discussion Forum archives...you'll need to search back several pages to find them. I had intended to make more videos, but decided that the three I had done were enough. I'm not here to be a teacher and the videos I made serve their own purpose well enough. Thanks for the comments, they're appreciated.

Octavius
_________________________
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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#37788 - 04/18/10 11:11 AM Re: Something for the Noobs [Re: Dan_Dread]
immortal1 Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/20/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Oh shut up..seriously. You come in here bringing up my name in a long dead thread and deliver a weak ass attempt at assassinating my character, then proceed to whine and cry that message boards are for exchanging ideas and not 'bashing'. Hypocrite much?


Ok. Ok. This is my last post in this thread. Fine. I did not come on this board to "bash" anyone, but when someone such as yourself proclaims their dominance and superior existence without offering to ME a shred of proof of what YOU have offered to Satanism or this board, I have no choice but to question your motives. My doing so does not constitute "bashing", which is defined as "unprovoked physical assault" or "verbal abuse, as of a group or a nation", and therefore does not make me a hypocrite. Instead of getting defensive, maybe you could enlighten me on your views and tell me why you believe them instead of just telling other people that their ideas are crap. And I would do the same for you. So the offer is on the table.

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