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#16996 - 12/26/08 08:24 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: ta2zz]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
I see what you are saying ta2zz, and I agree, you're right. But on this topic I felt I had enough of a grasp on Satanism to try to explain these certain aspects of it.

And I don't know about "village idiot", but I do know some things, although people may make you believe the opposite. It doesn't matter to me all that much really, I'm more concerned with how I view myself then how others do.


Dan.....

 Quote:
Oh I understood what was being said, it was just bullshit. Just like so much around here attempting to represent itself as Satanism. If you agree with the bullshit, good for you.


...Can you back that up?

 Quote:
Being a Satanist is not the 'natural' state of everyone. If you believe that you are a sucker.


...Or that? Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough in my post...Ta2zz understood.

 Quote:
And if you have such a weak grasp on what Satanism is to believe it can be anything and it is some formless nebula that can manifest as whatever the fuck anyone wants it to, well whatever.


Then can you explain what Satanism "is"? Maybe there aren't different "types" of Satanism, but Satanists can obviously have different opinions that would set them apart from the rest of the herd (referring to wherever this thread has gone). I don't mean to sound like a jerk here but how can anyone be sure of what Satanism is when there's so many people claiming to be Satanists that have different views on certain situations, even on what makes you a Satanist. If you don't believe Satanists are "born" (which LaVey clearly stated in TSB), and you consider yourself a LaVeyan Satanist, aren't you contradicting yourself a bit?


Edited by Mike (12/26/08 08:30 PM)
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#16998 - 12/26/08 08:46 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Mike]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
No, I don't have to back anything up. It's all glaringly obvious to those that get it, and never will be to those that don't.

It's really that simple.
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#16999 - 12/26/08 08:53 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
No, I don't have to back anything up. It's all glaringly obvious to those that get it, and never will be to those that don't.

It's really that simple.


And who decides who get's it and who doesn't? The people who either do or don't get it?
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#17000 - 12/26/08 09:15 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
Replacing one form of bullshit with another is still just piling shit…
The answer it seems is simple just use a bit more wit…
From reading through your writings I see that you’re not meek…
Just saying go and kill yourself just comes off to me as weak…
Excuse me though I had no clue,
That you were here to define what's right and true…
It is enough to make you frown,
Seeing yet another man try to wear that crown…
This little rhyming ditty I just had to make,
To simply try to stay abreast of this man that they call Jake…

~T~
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#17002 - 12/26/08 11:59 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
I think he misspoke a bit. I don't think he was trying to say that literally every single person on the planet is a born Satanist, but rather that every Satanist is such from birth.
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#17016 - 12/27/08 09:12 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The Zebu]
Picunnus Offline
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Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Ohio, USA
I thought he meant that we are all naturally born sinners. Does a Satanist not agree with this? We ARE all born sinners! I interpreted Mike to mean that Satanists are the ones who REMAIN heathens. We revel in it.
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#17018 - 12/27/08 10:39 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Picunnus]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
What the hell is a 'sinner'?

And assuming some sort of cogent explanation, how are christians less 'sinners' than the rest of us? I would say the 'sinners' would have to be the very ones that recognize sin, as such. Myself, I don't recognize the christian rulebook as legitimate.


And, Zebu, he was in fact talking about 'every human being', as the text actually read. We discussed this further in chat yesterday.

Most human beings are lazy, stupid, unmotivated and weak of will, by default. Satanists are born as the elite, being naturally driven, intelligent, motivated and strong willed. The inverse.
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#17019 - 12/27/08 11:18 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
 Quote:
By understanding our true nature as human beings and how Satan is symbolic for that in the sense that he stands for freedom and embracing ones true self.

And can you define our true nature? To be honest, only you can make up what YOUR true nature is. No one else can do it. Of course there are some main aspects everyone has in common. But most of the time you only know your true nature. The idea we all share a "universal common human nature" is just plain bullshit. Some aspects, yes: all aspects--> NO.

 Quote:
What I meant was that once you starting searching and walking your path and stumble across Satanism you will begin to see exactly what it means to be a Satanist, and if they look hard enough into it they will understand the true meaning of the term.

Now what you are saying here needs some revising.
If you stumble across Satanism you will not begin to see what it means to be a satanist. To state my response: there are theistic satanists with 30 years or so "experience" but who don't have a clue about Satanism I and others on this forum share in common. Does this mean he doesn't know what true Satanism is? Sure he does, but only he thinks theistic Satanism is the only "true" form while I may disagree on him.

 Quote:
What kind of person exactly would you consider to be a "real" Satanist? LaVeyan Satanists? Theistic Satanists? Anyone who considers themselves a Satanist of any sort will believe they are a "real" Satanist by their standards. How do you know which is the real form of Satanism, or do you mean all Satanism is the same and therefore there is only one Satanism? Enlighten me.

All sorts of Satanism are to certain persons "true" Satanism. I'm not going to point out which form is true. I only give positive opinions to the different kinds of Satanism with the highest credibility factor meeting my standards. (To clarify a point: theistic Satanism to me is actually inverse Christianity, but within this context I just make my explanation easier and let theistic Satanism count as Satanism).
You should look out for yourself what kind you want to belong to. You should find your own way, I only share information to clarify things or when someone asks for it NICELY.

 Originally Posted By: dan_dread
Most human beings are lazy, stupid, unmotivated and weak of will, by default. Satanists are born as the elite, being naturally driven, intelligent, motivated and strong willed. The inverse.

Can you state that part? I can reject it by saying some people are motivated and strong-willed by faith in a Christian God. And some are actually quite intelligent (but however fail with credibility when some answer who are more difficult to explain are answered with "GOD"). But then again.. when is someone intelligent? It depends mostly on reflecting towards your own standards.
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#17020 - 12/27/08 11:26 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
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How can you be 'strong willed' while at the same time believing in a philosophy that tells you you must 'submit' your will?

Seems a bit of a paradox.
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#17021 - 12/27/08 11:39 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dimitri Offline
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Posts: 3119
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
How can you be 'strong willed' while at the same time believing in a philosophy that tells you you must 'submit' your will?

Seems a bit of a paradox.

Some achieve a strong will by submitting their will.
It is quite paradoxal, but weirdly enough it actually makes sense. Will sometimes is connected to motivation. So Christians can be strong-willed by the motivation "fear". Or how else should I interprete some stay at christian philosophy even if you can clearly show they don't make sense?
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#17022 - 12/27/08 12:02 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
Dan_Dread Offline
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I don't think it's possible to cultivate the will while at the same time willfully suppressing it. Cultivation of the will requires discipline and focus, and doesn't just happen by accident.
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#17023 - 12/27/08 12:22 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
Do not forget, christianity is one of the most over-thought lies.
It is possible to submit your will to an other person and let them think it is their own while actually surpressing theirs.
It all depends on how you put things into a perspective. Or how you let them interact with certain ideas. You can always plant a little seed of supression within someone.

Problem is, christians actually have a free will. But by fear (however they don't like it to admit) they surpress their own natural urges. However most natural urges can't be erased and still are within them. By trying to surpress it they get fucked by themselves.
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#17030 - 12/27/08 03:03 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
And, Zebu, he was in fact talking about 'every human being', as the text actually read. We discussed this further in chat yesterday.


And we agreed that SOME are born Satanists, and others don't have it in them. Thus, Satanism isn't for everybody (correct)? And you need to decide for yourself. From experience I can say it is not a religion for the weak. Hell, I don't know anyone as strong willed as some of the people I know that are Satanists, and I suppose it is their will that makes them what they are.


Edited by Mike (12/27/08 03:06 PM)
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#17039 - 12/27/08 07:48 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Jake999]
paolo sette Offline
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Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
In reply to the original query: Everything.
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#17059 - 12/28/08 08:18 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Mike]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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Of course Satanism isn't for everyone and to a degree it is futile to have the great "who is and who isn't" quiz. Some are, some believe they are and some pretend they are. The great trinity.

Will isn't the only thing what makes a satanist. You have to have an enormous will to flog yourself each evening for the impure thoughts you had during the day, like some religious did or do but we can all agree that this isn't something considered as very satanic. So will alone or being strong willed doesn't do much in in itself.

Will means nothing without control. If you have no self control, having will is of little use. After all, you'd have to know when you will something and when something is willed for reasons beyond you. What makes a satanist is all about realization and this realization is not something as simplistic as realizing one is a satanist. It requires a complete deconstruction of reality and of the self, all it stands for and then, a complete reconstruction that allows the satanist to recreate himself as something free from everything that is not his will. Again, it's not some simplistic process that is instantly done after reading the SB. It's a process of years.

The third stage, and really it's not a phase thing, more a continuous process in which realization is a priority and control flows from there, anyways the third stage, and this is where it gets harder, is the complete abandonment of societal or human morals and the acceptance that every approach to finalize his will is a good approach. This is where the satanist will leave the continent of humans and retreat to his own isle. This is what I imply when I say that the end always justifies the means. Ultimately, this is what will make the selection between be, believe to be and pretend to be.

D.

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