Page 9 of 10 « First<678910>
Topic Options
#18085 - 01/13/09 06:17 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
OOps...busted..However that would only apply to atheistic Satanism.


So then you are of the belief that other types of Satanism exist?

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
So really I have the freedom to do one (believe) or the other (not believe) whenever I feel like it, which is more freedom than merely being an atheist.


I have the freedom to shove my cock in a waffle iron, or, to not be a total retard.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
And isn't Satanism really about freedom?


Yes, freedom from esoteric thinking that has done nothing but slow down the progress of the human race.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
By the way, who the hell gave you the official rulebook anyway? I make my own rules as to what I believe.


Well if you must know, Satan gave me the official rule book… Go ahead and make your own rules if you want to, but that doesn’t make you a Satanist.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
and then again which god am I giving validity too?


By claiming to be a “hardcore agnostic” you are obviously giving validity to the idea of the Judeo-Christian god. The term agnostic applies to nothing besides that.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
Maybe I'm agnostic towards Satan but I absolutely positively do not believe in a Judeo-Christian god.


Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?


 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
Maybe I have a thing for space aliens and interdimensional beings? Oh wait Cthulhu yes that's what I believe in. Really I don’t care, you can pick whatever one you want.


If that is the case; beware of space aids and Cthuluoreah.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
I'm fond of #4 in this case.

Agnostic-noun 1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
–adjective 3. of or pertaining to agnostics or agnosticism.
4. asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge.
Dictionary.com


That right there proves my point. It is that very uncertainty that makes it very obvious that you are NOT a Satanist. You are a pansy fence sitting agnostic, who is too scared, or ignorant, to make a decision one way or the other.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
It's not that I cannot believe, it is that I "will" not believe. I choose not to give one theory validity over the other.


By choosing the agnostic standpoint, thus saying; “maybe”, you ARE giving validity to the ENTIRE theory.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
this is not about being undecided.


Yes, that is EXACTLY what it is about.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#18089 - 01/13/09 09:13 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
Ok...

1 There is such a thing as theistic Satanism. Other modes of thought exist which are neither theistic or atheistic in the chaos/left hand path fields (Temple of Set, ,Illuminates of Thanateros are just examples.)

2.Saying that agnosticism only applies to Judeo-Christian thought is an outright falsehood.

3. “If that is the case beware of space aids and Cthuluoreah." -This is actually really funny

4.Finally, I am certain that NO ONE, not just me, can be certain about any belief system whether it be theistic or atheistic. Atheism is a belief which requires faith in something that cannot be proven. To believe that a god(s), deities or esotericism do not exist is a belief, a dogmatism which requires faith.
_________________________
Awake, arise, or be for ever fall'n.

Top
#18090 - 01/13/09 09:26 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
So Bob, Betty and Ben are called to their boss for a review.
Being satisfied about their work he offers them two options to choose from. A: a raise in their paycheck and a company car or option B.

Now Bob, being the Atheist and rational in his approach decides to take option A. After all, he does not have any evidence what B can be so it is only rational to pick option A.

Betty being our nice theistic believer considers B. B could be a managers position or maybe a partnership into the firm so it is only in her best interest to select option B.

Now Ben, our true agnostic hero considers A and B. After pondering a while about it, he tells his boss he can't come to a decision. As long as he doesn't have ALL the data, he can never know what would be the right choice. So he tells the boss he decides to take none.

What does that tell us dear kids? Only that Betty and Ben are both idiots because any sane man or woman knows that in a case where there is no evidence for an option, it is always the most rational approach to go with what you know.

This is what happens at an intellectual level in an agnostic. It feels pretty stupid when put into a realistic perspective but then again, I never said agnosticism isn't stupid to begin with.

D.

Top
#18092 - 01/13/09 09:38 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Diavolo]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
I agree. I’ll choose what works best in any given situation based on evidence/probability of a given result. However I will not believe that any choice can be canonized as absolute universal law. Certainty takes the fun out of gambling doesn't it?
_________________________
Awake, arise, or be for ever fall'n.

Top
#18097 - 01/13/09 11:12 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3892
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Three things,

1)Agnosticism is theism-light. Apologism at it's finest.

As there is no rational reason to give the idea of deities even a passing glance, much less serious consideration, saying 'maybe' is as good as saying yes.

2)There is no such thing as 'theistic Satanism'. Satanism is a belief structure that turns theistic practice on its head. Satanism takes external deity and places it inward, and that is the very core of it. Theism is theism is theism, can never be Satanism. It is the exact opposite. Any representative from the temple of set would be quick to disavow any connection to Satanism.

3)Atheism is NOT a faith based belief. That is christian rhetoric, right there. Atheism is the absence of a belief in external deities, nothing more, nothing less. We are all born atheists. Theism is a meme that is programmed in later. It does not take any 'faith' to reject a ridiculous unevidenced and completely unsupportable claim, as presented by ANY imaginary friend based belief.
Atheism is no more a faith than bald is a hairstyle.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#18100 - 01/13/09 11:45 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
One can say Atheism is no faith, except that one has faith in this assertion. One is absolutely sure that nothing else is existent except for that which is material/scientific I can assume? This is true even though scientific theories changes radically every few decades or so? I do conduct all business as an opponent of religious and philosophical dogmatism , all dogmatism. I won’t play favorites.
I fear I'm fueling a fire that is going horribly off topic and I do this even though I realize that arguing any dogmatic ideal is ultimately fruitless.
_________________________
Awake, arise, or be for ever fall'n.

Top
#18104 - 01/13/09 11:56 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Any representative from the temple of set would be quick to disavow any connection to Satanism.


I do realize this and maybe I should have distinguished between LaVeyan Satanism and other uses of the idea of Satan (and similar archetypes).
_________________________
Awake, arise, or be for ever fall'n.

Top
#18105 - 01/13/09 12:13 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3892
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

One can say Atheism is no faith, except that one has faith in this assertion.

Equivocation. You are using different definitions for each instance of 'faith' in this sentence. Tsk tsk, such tactics are quite dishonest. Or perhaps you aren't aware of it?

 Quote:

One is absolutely sure that nothing else is existent except for that which is material/scientific I can assume?

Well, yes. Science is a process, and it loosely translates, functionally, into 'knowledge and all legitimate methods of acquiring it'.We don't know everything yet, or even have a grasp of what 'everything' might entail, but anything that falls outside of this sphere is defacto unknowable. If it's unknowable then it doesn't manifest itself into reality in any tangible sense, so who cares?

 Quote:

I do conduct all business as an opponent of religious and philosophical dogmatism , all dogmatism

What do you mean here by dogmatism? It sounds as though you are advocating a system in which nothing can be known, nothing is real, and all knowledge is ethereal. Sounds rather pointless and counterproductive to me. Sometimes you have to quit humming and hawing and plant your flag, if you ever want to actually make progress.
 Quote:

I fear I'm fueling a fire that is going horribly off topic and I do this even though I realize that arguing any dogmatic ideal is ultimately fruitless.

Actually, critically examining firm claims, that you might call 'dogmatism'(claims such as there is a god, there is no god, etc), is the road to advancement. Some will stand up to scrutiny, and some will not. It is only when something fails to withstand scrutiny that it should be discarded.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#18108 - 01/13/09 01:06 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
I disagree with the charge of equivocation. The def. I'm using, on both sides of the sentence, is implying that neither idea is worthy of trust. Idea #1= god(s) and the like/ idea#2= no-god(s) and the like. At least that was my intention.

At least you concede that there is that which is unknowable! That may not matter to you but it matters to me.
"Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted." Pointless? Perhaps. Counterproductive? Maybe. Some find it liberating.


Edited by The AntiChris (01/13/09 01:18 PM)
_________________________
Awake, arise, or be for ever fall'n.

Top
#18114 - 01/13/09 02:09 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
I find my difficulty in explaining myself frustrating and for that I apologize and take full responsibility. I don't feel that philosophical models are useless, quite the contrary. I feel that the best philosophical explanations are however models, or working theories. This keeps open the possibility for continued improvement. In doing, the unknowable is always taken into consideration. Many ideas in the Chaos realms appeal to me and I have been influenced by it. I will not apologize for that. Most of what I'm saying here can be found in that literature in some form............. fucking can of worms.
_________________________
Awake, arise, or be for ever fall'n.

Top
#18115 - 01/13/09 03:41 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
The Zebu Online
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
Atheism is not saying "THERE CANNOT BE ANY HIGHER POWER OR SUPERNATURAL EXISTENCE WHATSOEVER AND THAT'S FINAL". Atheism exists within a framework of agnosticism, and basically says "There is no evidence to give me reason to believe in your funny idea that there is something called a 'God', so I don't buy it, sorry."

Why do people tie up the idea of "God" with worship? So what if there is some cosmic "Creator"? That doesn't mean we have to chant prayers and bow down in subservience to it, or that such a being would even care if we did such rituals. If there is a true God, then it would probably be far too infinitely complex and multidimensional for us to fathom, and exist beyond the petty human sphere of awareness.

But I will have to say that Theistic Satanism does exist, because it was invented by Christians, and that some people are unenlightened enough to buy into it. Why worship a deity? What do you get out of it? Some kind of afterlife or cosmic reward? It's nonsense.

To me, Theistic Satanism can fall into two categories (often a mix of both)...
1. Traditional Religion: For them, Satan is just another god to be worshiped with prayers and holy books, like all the other boring deities of RHP beliefs. Many of these people have missed the mark entirely.
2. Misdirected Energy: These people get the general idea that Satan represents self-deification and ultimate empowerment, but for some reason or another are still attached to the theistic crutch of "needing" an external god to worship. Like a child that can swim perfectly well, but is afraid to go into the water without arm-floats.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#18118 - 01/13/09 04:14 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The Zebu]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3892
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

I disagree with the charge of equivocation. The def. I'm using, on both sides of the sentence, is implying that neither idea is worthy of trust

Faith, in the context of 'religious faith', is defined as 'belief without, or in spite of, evidence'. Atheism doesn't qualify, as no belief of any sort is required;rather, an absence of one. The belief in this instance is introduced externally, Atheism is just the default position. A brain dead vegetable is an Atheist. A plant is an Atheist. A rock is an Atheist. These things all lack the necessary belief to be otherwise.That these things lack the capacity to be otherwise doesn't even factor in, it is what it is. The fact that there even exists an 'ism' that describes essentially nothing is evidence only of mans inclination to take on fantasy beliefs.

So what you are essentially saying is that it takes faith to believe that Atheism is not a faith, which is nonsense. It is a cut and dried matter of etymological definition.
 Quote:

At least you concede that there is that which is unknowable!

Only hypothetically for the purpose of this discussion. In reality I do not think there is anything unknowable or beyond the reach of our potential understanding. I think a belief in the unknowable amounts to defeatism.

 Quote:

"Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted." Pointless? Perhaps. Counterproductive? Maybe. Some find it liberating.

If that is how you feel, perhaps you would feel more at home in a thelema based discussion group? That is, after all a tenet of that religion and not Satanism.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#18125 - 01/13/09 08:04 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
[quote=Dan_Dread]
 Quote:
A brain dead vegetable is an atheist.


Ok you said it not me. I also don't agree with the criticism. In your defense though I will say that something has to have self-awareness in order to define itself and there isn't sufficient evidence for that.

Atheism being the "faith" that the material world is concrete, "hard", knowable, and not just a perception of the human mind or a result of brain matter smacking into other matter. Atheism is the faith that a singular form of human consciousness is valid and relevant to the rest of the universe while others are delusion. Some experiences are considered valid while others are considered not valid.I honestly don't mean to offend and I feel that Atheism is a completely honorable position. I was just having some fun for the sake of argument.


Edited by The AntiChris (01/13/09 08:17 PM)
_________________________
Awake, arise, or be for ever fall'n.

Top
#18128 - 01/13/09 10:24 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3892
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well it really boils down to one thing when dealing with cosmology. You either believe in some sort of cosmological system, or you don't. Religious cosmology, including agnosticism, all sits in the same camp, that of requiring religious faith to function.

Choosing to abstain from throwing your cosmological ticket into the wind in such a way is really the only honest choice. All else is willful self deception.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#18132 - 01/13/09 11:21 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
The Zebu Online
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
Atheism is faith that "the material world" is concrete?

I'm sorry, but if something EXISTS, then it is material. If God exists, then GOD IS MATERIAL. You can't say that something "is not of the material world", simply because if something IS, it is material.

If "concrete", you mean, unchanging in relation to our current understanding, that that would be impossible, as the entire field of modern science is devoted to expanding our knowledge of the material world. So far we haven't found any Gods yet, so until then science will be inherently atheistic.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
Page 9 of 10 « First<678910>


Moderator:  SkaffenAmtiskaw, fakepropht, TV is God, Woland, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.029 seconds of which 0.003 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.