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#8616 - 05/12/08 12:29 PM What makes you a Satanist
Japster Offline
lurker


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 3
Loc: South Africa
I know that this must sound really stupid, but I do reall ywant to know what do you do to become a Satanist?

I've read the Satanic Bible now, but is there any specific things that needs to be done to become a Satanist. I've got no chance in doing a full ritual as I'm currently in prison so I dont have access to the equipment to do the ritual. I do really want to beocme a real Satanist with all the benefits, but how will I be able to do this. Is there any books on this?

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#8617 - 05/12/08 01:08 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Japster]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Satan stopped giving a 401k plan to prospective souls at least a year ago…

Now on a more serious note what do you think these benefits are? The main benefit is being responsible for your own actions…

It takes nothing to realize that no supreme being rules your life and that wishing or praying is one and the same… Both are simply a way to waste time and watch your life disappear…

Good luck on your path...
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#8618 - 05/12/08 01:35 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Japster]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
 Originally Posted By: Japster
I do reall ywant to know what do you do to become a Satanist?

I've read the Satanic Bible now, but is there any specific things that needs to be done to become a Satanist.


To be a Satanist according to the standard set by LaVey (although not all on this site are LaVeyans), one must be born a Satanist. It is not something you can become.
Satan is not some supernatural being 'out there' who must be called upon through a specific ritual.

If you see yourself as having been born a Satanist, Satan represents your inner core of values you are naturally drawn towards, which you feel are truly 'you' - values such as individuality, authenticity, intelligence, skillfulness, undefiled wisdom, free thought, personal freedom, personal empowerment and living naturally.

These are symbolized by Satan, the Adversary or Opponent.
I tend to see this as the opponent of all oppressive and deluded religious, moral, political and philosophical dogma - not just Christianity.
Satanism also refuses to go with 'trendy' values and ideals, such as many popular versions of liberalism or egalitarianism, just because they are popular or the status quo. Freedom from popular prejudice is seen as a worthy aim.

If this feels like 'you', then you know you are a Satanist, if you wish to embrace that label.
I tend to see the practical application of ideas are more important than labeling or ritual.

But if you feel you want the label of Satanist, you can do a personalized ritual to affirm your identity as a Satanist.
If a full ritual isn't possible, you could try a visualization - that could, with enough practice, be equally effective. (I'm trained in Hypnosis so I know a bit about the power of imagination...)

I'm sure you can also think of many discreet ritualized actions you could perform to identify you with your core values, as well as any other kind of symbolism or aesthetic you resonate with. You could also try combining ritual with meditation, there are various forms, you might find one which suits you and helps you to achieve your goals.

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#8938 - 05/23/08 03:17 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Meq]
The Antagonist Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 26
Loc: Los Angeles
I agree with some of LaVey's satanic beliefs, but I don't label myself a Satanist. I don't need to label myself to remind myself who I am or to let other people know what my beliefs are.

I don't see anything wrong with labeling oneself, but I just don't believe it is necessary to do so.

Just the fact that you are asking what someone has to do to become a Satanist gives me the vibe that you have not thought this through.

Perhaps you need to get more information on Satanism and ask yourself what YOU believe in; don't ask others how to become a Satanist.

If you research about Satanism and you happen to have the same feelings/beliefs as they do then Satanism might be right for you.
_________________________
There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.
-Joseph Brodsky

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#8960 - 05/24/08 03:07 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The Antagonist]
lillith Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 14
Loc: brisbane
Whe I first read the Satanic Bible, I found it really profound and insisted that almost everyone I know should read it. It was a big thing for me to show a whole lot of psychic vampires where the door was. Those friends I had that did read it understood totally and agreed it was thought provoking, but dont call themselves Satanists for a number of reasons. One being the actual word Satan in itself, and the fact that alot of people still dont understand what Satan actually is. Maybe you need to just stop thinking about the label, and enjoy marching to the beat of your own drum. Think of the Rules of the Earth for instance, just common sense really.
Read some Fredrich Neischke ( did I spell that right?). He's brilliant.

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#9036 - 05/26/08 05:29 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Japster]
SATANAS Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 32
Loc: ANCHORAGE - ALASKA
BEING A SATANIST IS WORSHIPING THE DEVIL - GETTING HIGH HELPS 4 ME -

Edited by SATANAS (05/26/08 05:43 AM)
_________________________
hail satanas

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#9047 - 05/26/08 10:56 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: SATANAS]
PigFeeder Offline
member


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Near Montreal, QC
Ehh, maybe you should consider another religion, or actually doing some research.

Satanism isn't all about worshipping the 'Devil'. There are different 'types' of Satanism if you will, and I know of only one that actually worships Satan as a deity. Maybe it's all about worshipping the Devil to you, but don't generalize it by telling other people what it is no matter what.

Someone already told you about the whole CAPS thing so it seems as if you will change it to a more respectful manner.

It's fine if getting high works for you, but what makes you think that the rest of us, with your proclamation being off-topic, really care. It's fine for you, but next time you post I expect to see maybe a little more knowledge and helpfulness in your posts.

Look around, do some research.

Good day to you,



~Snow~.
_________________________
For all murderers, I am the leader.
Forever, Rob, The 49 PigFeeder.
NecroMantic Sin.

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#9063 - 05/26/08 07:50 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: PigFeeder]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Yes. you are right.It's not about the Devil but the human nature
and Everything they Demonize is in nature.
True?
I have been pouring out emotion over myself reflection.
I feeling communication is Retrograde for me.
Mercury and Neptune are Retrograding in my line of communication
I feel somewhat like I have not even begone to reach the Pentacle.
Self Expression Is what we adore yet mine is feeling like
The hanged-man or The Joker.
I do not intend to mislead,but feel mislead.
My misleading thoughts and expressions are apart of the communication wall.
I strive to make sense but realize I do not to anyone,even Myself.
What is wrong?
How can I commune Better?
Either I make Sense perfectly or make no at all.
I know this.
I will Keep striving.
I will Suceed.


"Hail."

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#9065 - 05/26/08 08:26 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
The Dark one
Meaning to me to be the Black flame.
Out in the world it is The strong survive or The Alpha male syndrome.
Like Eye for a Eye or Self-Indulgence without guilt or remorse.
The Religion is not about Money,Just hoodooo.
It's based alot on Aleister Crowley and Lavey's fasination
with Magic Rites of passage.
I approach always with respect and caution when speaking about the dead.
Most I understand do not believe in any god or supernatural.
I beg to differ.
Theist or not. I believe Reverence and Respect Is on command wherever you go or enter into.
You must approach your Mass with respect for the Elements.
Including Human lives and Deaths.
If you speak of something it will manifest.
It has no other way.
Everything you want or get is based on respect.
Not by taking,stealing or just carbon copies.
A ever Evolving Human really does not exist.
It has been the Ancient way of living for Hundreds of thousands of years.
The Luxuries we have with Tech"s and Space age are taken for granted.
I show the utmost respect to those who see past money and Cell phones.
I helped plow feilds and work with the sweat of my brow.
Others take the luxury of just being.
I do not.
You would have to see past to write the black book.
Most older than me do not see the Ancient ways as a way of life.
It is.
It's always been uncivilized and Chaotic here.
Indulge yourself but do not forget to respect your Elders.
They have surley Survived longer than pin-heads with Internet Rites.
Who believe.
I am special.
Mommy picks out my clothes for me and wipes my ass too mentality.
Special.I am special.
Bullshit.
Your no more special than a Ant hill.
In fact nature has survived longer than we will ever.
True?
Humans are just one Element of the Equator.



"I respect the dead and Elders."
Me.

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#9067 - 05/26/08 10:36 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Japster]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 277
Loc: New Mexico
You gotta love that darkness....that's all...
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#9068 - 05/26/08 10:48 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: 97and107]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Heil Satan!

Are we not the beast who walk on all fours?
Are we not the killers.
Are we not the healers.
That is the law
Law of living inside the flesh.
Heil
Heil
Satan
Satan
God of men.
God of men.
God of beast.
God of Beast.
Man is his beast and his God.
Man is his Beast and his God.
Heil.
Heil.
Satan.
Satan.
Who's Wine we drink.
Who's wine is bitter.
Who's well never runs dry.
Dry!
Dry!
Heil.
Heil.
Satan.
Satan.


"WE Rule the world."

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#9069 - 05/26/08 10:54 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: PigFeeder]
SATANAS Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 32
Loc: ANCHORAGE - ALASKA
for me it is all about worshiping the devil - he is my mohhamid - or my jesus if you will - everyones different - i dont know what levay was doing when he wrote the book or when he started that church i wasnt there - but in all the rituals and hocus pocus i would like to think he was making offers to satan - so if you ask me what makes me a satanist - my answer is worshiping and devoting all my energy to satan - satanas - its not about the fucking earth and shit - so forgive my ignorance ive only been at this for about ten years - and as far as the marijuana - im not promoting it - but you cant deny the role it played in this thing you and i call Satanism - all the greats were high - richard ramerez - the eagles - i bet even the black pope himself - oh yeah and me
- the big bad satanas - no disrespect not trying to get the boot - this is just my opinion - whos to say if its wrong or not - just because i didnt read as many books as the next guy dosnt mean im not who i am


Edited by SATANAS (05/26/08 11:08 PM)
_________________________
hail satanas

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#9071 - 05/26/08 11:53 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: SATANAS]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Forgive your ignorance? You've only been at this for 10 years? Most of the greatest athletes career's only span 10-12 years. Most of the great band's careers now barely reach 10 years. Many of the greatest minds have less than 10 years of formal higher level education. Yet, after 10 years of study, you are still ingnorant enough to misspell your own hometown? And you have to apologize for your ingnorance of 10 years worth of satanic studies?

Hmm, to lump Richard Ramirez in with the greats? Let's revisit his history. Because I am too lazy to type all this from memory, I will defer to copying and pasting from a fave site of mine.

He'd dropped out of the ninth grade and had been living the life of a slacker, smoking marijuana and living on convenience store junk food.

His diet was so rich in sugar, his teeth eventually started to rot, which made his breath foul and offensive.

Michael D. Harris, reporting for UPI, wrote that years later his father would maintain that Richard was a "good boy" whose marijuana consumption "put him out of control."

His first known victim was a seventy-nine-year old Glassel Park resident named Jennie Vincow. On June 28, 1984, she had apparently left a window open because it had been hot that evening. Ramirez simply removed the screen and climbed in. Vincow's son, who lived in the apartment over her ground floor apartment, discovered her body sprawled out on the bed. She had been stabbed repeatedly, and her throat was slashed so savagely she was nearly decapitated. The intruder also ransacked her apartment and helped himself to her valuables. Fingerprints were recovered from the window sill, and the autopsy revealed signs of sexual assault. The Night Stalker's fantasy had finally become reality. An opportunist and preyer on the weak. Not to mention he left fingerprints at the scene and sexually assualted an old lady. Yummy.

Dispatch the male quickly to get him out of the way so that he could have his perverse way with the woman in the house. The man was just an impediment and not part of the fantasy; the woman was the real object of desire. Not very successful with the ladies I guess. So he takes by force that which he can not win with personallity.

Upon his arrest, Ramirez, 26, was charged with fourteen murders and thirty-one other felonies related to his 1985 murder, rape and robbery spree. A fifteenth murder in San Francisco also hung over his head, with the potential for a trial in Orange County for rape and attempted murder. So at age 26, when most are beginning to establish their foothold on life and the real elitists are starting to understand their dominance over the herd, this goof ball was on trial for his life. Winner!

In 29 years of his life he accomplished being sentenced to death. Luckily, he resided in California and not Texas or Virginia. We like to put our death row inmates on the express path to the needle. He'll live out his years confined to a cell, sucking dick, watching whatever happens to be on the tv at the time, writing letters of appeal, never being able to run in the forest, own a house, own the latest AC/DC album, see them in concert, or experience that which we call life. Awesome! What an inspiration.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#9085 - 05/27/08 01:50 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: SATANAS]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
i am willing to give anyone the benefit of doubt and stuff, but once you start finding common grounds between the Eagles and braindead mutant trash like ramerez... youve gone too far.

that said, you might want to check out the Joy Of Satan website... possibly more to your liking than us book nerds.

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#9087 - 05/27/08 05:05 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Bacchae]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Ramirez.Richard.
Blast to the Eagles?
You been smoking Pcp.
That deserves no credit to humanity what so ever.
I have more respect towards My Kat.
It takes Discipline to be here.
Not a luxury.
Not a right.
Please do not ask for forgiveness to us but to yourself Respect first.
Then Please Say somthing to your Defense and Apologize.
I am new still at this but am studying hard.
You want a Membership.
Earn like me.
I have had no easy task.
I agree that luckily he's inside Cali.
Down south YOU DIE!!!!
I guess you think your the devil or love R,because he did a stupid act in personating the Devil?
Horse Shit!
I would rather be a Prodickal eating Slop rather than
Hear Horse Shit!
I have been ridiculed for my babble but that is trash talk
in a class of it's on.


Death to weakling.Wealth to strong
Command!

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#9100 - 05/27/08 02:56 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Isaak w shipley]
PigFeeder Offline
member


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Near Montreal, QC
Joy Of Satan? Lmao, yah sure. Ignorants liek this are what make up the 'group' from what I've derived. In any case, I really don't think you're place is here SATANAS, but if you wisen up and watch your posts more, make some more meaningful contributions; I don't know, maybe you can make yourself usefull here. The basic princepal we have here is A: Post and offer knowledge. B: Lurk and gain knowledge. And some consider an agreement of the both. Personally. The lastly seems more of a brilliant idea to me. But to each his own of course, a familiar yet not expressed often enough, saying.





~Snow~.
_________________________
For all murderers, I am the leader.
Forever, Rob, The 49 PigFeeder.
NecroMantic Sin.

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#9102 - 05/27/08 03:18 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Isaak w shipley]
SATANAS Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 32
Loc: ANCHORAGE - ALASKA
ah well - you cant win them all
_________________________
hail satanas

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#9103 - 05/27/08 03:24 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: SATANAS]
Nahara Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Iowa
PigFeeder has an attitude. *smiles childishly*
_________________________
I am the daughter of Satan.

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#9104 - 05/27/08 03:32 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: PigFeeder]
SATANAS Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 32
Loc: ANCHORAGE - ALASKA
at least your giving the benifet of the doubt - and still think i have an chance - sort of - instead of criticising everything - some people here are so self ritious - selfishly thinking Satanism is only for them - i dont care what i wrote - im just trying to contribute - its like you got to have a phd to post - so far out of all the peoples post i have read - you strike me as fair - even though you somehow make me fear for my life
_________________________
hail satanas

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#9105 - 05/27/08 03:47 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: fakepropht]
SATANAS Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 32
Loc: ANCHORAGE - ALASKA
with all due respect - i know your probably like the only satanist in the world - and we should all look up and respect you - but thats how i feel - so what if he ate junk food - he still worshiped satan - he was a self proclaimed devil worshiper - give him the respect he deserves - im not trying to get " the red button " but you sound like a hypocrit - so what if i dont spell some words right - you mispelled satan for satin - confusing our dark lord for a fabric
_________________________
hail satanas

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#9114 - 05/27/08 06:54 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: fakepropht]
SATANAS Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 32
Loc: ANCHORAGE - ALASKA
im talking about satanists - and your talking about athletes - i just say that drugs can be a part of Satanism - and your talking about junk food - what kind of math is that ? i think your just trying to get me banned - im here to learn and contribute - your treating me wrong - there are others on here who deserve your abuse more than i do - shit - i think r. ramerez was the man - he was a hard core devil worshiper - everything he did he did for satan - what kind of work have you put in - what kind of offerings have you given - just cause someone goes off and rapes and kills aint no big deal - that only makes him more evil - thats a good thing if you ask me - i bet in satans army fucking r. ramerez is a fucking general - and if you cant see the sarcasm in " forgive my ignorance - ive only been doing this for ten years " then thats your problem . no disrespect of course - im not trying to get myself banned - shit - i like it here - satanas is here to stay
_________________________
hail satanas

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#9122 - 05/27/08 08:10 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: SATANAS]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Dude, you dont get it...

Satanism is about becoming more, achieveing more, doing more.
If you claim to be elite and above the herd, you must act like it.

Just cause some wack job says "hails satan" doesn't mean he gets respect.
Respect is earned. I wouldn't piss on most "so called satanist" like him if he was on fire.
They make the rest of us look bad.

As for drugs, if you look around we have had previous posts on this subject. Drugs are bad, when they control your life and become something that you "need" in order to do something. Otherwise no one really gives a shit.

" just cause someone goes off and rapes and kills aint no big deal - that only makes him more evil - thats a good thing if you ask me "
That is just stupid. So you think raping a 78 year old lady is cool.....
Besides, his motherfucking ass is gone & locked up. For all I care he is dead, and if anything "Satan" is laughing cause that boy ain't got shit now.

"Forgive your ignorance."
NO, purposeful ignorance is a waste of a breath.
YOu need to prove that you are not a fucking waste, if you are stupid and uninformed on a subject, DO SOMETHING about it. Go read a book, go check out the suggested reading lists. Go forth and make something of yourself, of your brain.
If you think this is the place to be all bad ass and tough talk, be prepared, Satanism is so much more than what you think it is....

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#9123 - 05/27/08 08:30 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Morgan]
SATANAS Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 32
Loc: ANCHORAGE - ALASKA
oh thats good - man thanks for showing me the error of my ways - you really knew how to break it down for me - and your right - your so right - i was just like fuck it - he was just some nut job - but he was there - you know what i mean - he was there rockin and rollin and rockin and rollin for satan - and your not gonna like this - but i bet satan was there rockin and rollin and rockin and rollin with him - does that sound stupid - i like to think that hes there with me like that - what if when he was raping this old lady - he was trying to conduct some some sort of ritual - hes so fucked up thats probably what he was doing - what is wrong with that - i mean come on - this guy was a satanist - or at least wanted to be - even the black pope himself indulged in strange sexual orgies and magic - do you disagree with that - of course in no way do i mean any disrespect - i am new here and alot to learn
_________________________
hail satanas

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#9124 - 05/27/08 08:45 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: SATANAS]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Seriously, SATANAS, you need to stop smoking pot for about a month. Really, I don't think you realize it is causing you brain damage.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#9128 - 05/27/08 10:40 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: SATANAS]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Honestly, at this point....

Next...

You have no real clue, no real desire to learn, and just trying to be a loud mouth bad boy.

That shit dont work here.
This is the big boys league...

Morg

ps.
As for magic, sex rites, and etc....
I can tell, boy do you have a lot to learn....

In all rudeness...

Shut the fuck up about ritchie, and go do some reading....
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#9131 - 05/27/08 11:21 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Morgan]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Heil.
Hail.
Are we not the beast who walk on fours?
Are we not the Leaches?
Are we not The Animal most dominate.
Heil.
Heil.
Satan.
Satan.
Do not the Stars,Sun,and moon have my seal?
Are we not The Healers?
Are we not the Prisioners?
Heil.
Hail.
Satan.
Satan.
The poision is All and Consuming.
Hail.
Hail.
Who Rules this Earth With Rebels.
Who's Stance Is upside Down.
Are We Not The Goverment?
Are we Not the System?
Hail.
Hail.
Satan.
Satan.
Are We Not The Black Flame?
Are We Not The Weak butStrong?
Hail.
Hail.
Satan!
Satan!
We Reverence the Night and Havest of Souls From the Earth.
Hail.
Hail.
Satan! Satan!
Heil.
Hail.
Hail.
Satan.
Satan.
Elements.
Elements.
Now Go and Be Peaceful.
Now Go and Be Peaceful.
Hail.
Hail.
Satan.
Satan.

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#9132 - 05/27/08 11:50 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: SATANAS]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Ok one try is all I am up for… Look Satanas, cannabis does not cause brain damage… No more than smoking cigarettes or drinking beer will so I will not go there and I will publicly disagree with Fist… You will not receive such an easy out with me…

Where I will go is you seem to be confused as to what the majority of Satanists on this forum believe… You talk about the different flavors in Satanism yet you seem to think truly that evil points and devil worship are the way to go…

Most of us do not believe in a special being that lives in the sky or under the earth, we tend to use Satan as a metaphor… We are not devil worshipers or would we ever feel the need to bow down to another being… In fact if we die and go to hell Satan has some explaining to do… Like where the fuck is Santa and the Easter Bunny hiding… Expecting brownie points for being stupid yet evil is more like the thought pattern of a pubescent high school boy trying to impress his friends than a grown man…

Satanism teaches being responsible for your own actions, Richie did not do this he blamed his doings on worshiping Satan… Was he hoping for an insanity plea?

A true Satanist would say I did what I did because I wanted to, and have no need to think otherwise… One might also say a true Satanist would never get caught because they would be smart enough to know what when and where to do or not do something… Evil has little to do with how I look at someone when stupidity is the more powerful demon… Are you starting to get it yet?

Now you know or should after 10 years of study and practice that Satanism has nothing to do with devil worship, it revolves around self-worship… And please do not think yourself above any here or some kind of expert because you have called yourself something for 10 years… I can show you 20-year tattoo artists that after 20 years still suck… What makes you any different?

Now if you are a theistic Satanist many may frown at you but you may still find a niche here still, but a devil worshiper? I don’t think we have any room here for that… Were all full up on crazy…

Until the time that you leave or are made to leave I look forward to your contribution… Even the village idiot has a lesson to teach if you are smart enough to learn it…

Enjoy your stay…

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#9146 - 05/28/08 05:06 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: ta2zz]
SATANAS Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 32
Loc: ANCHORAGE - ALASKA
Most of us do not believe in a special being that lives in the sky or under the earth, we tend to use Satan as a metaphor


like when i say that i worship the devil - shit im a satanist - i like to say it - i like people to know - im proud of it - im rollin with the devil - do you not feel this way ?


and though you come off as a rather nice fellow - im not - i dont need to capitalize my i's to be a satanist - thats what i am - or did you think you were the only one -


_________________________
hail satanas

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#9147 - 05/28/08 05:25 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Isaak w shipley]
SATANAS Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 32
Loc: ANCHORAGE - ALASKA
you gotta be kidding me - you sound like a broken record
_________________________
hail satanas

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#9148 - 05/28/08 05:50 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Bacchae]
SATANAS Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 32
Loc: ANCHORAGE - ALASKA
the cover of that album with anton - ramerez being a satanist
_________________________
hail satanas

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#9149 - 05/28/08 06:50 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: SATANAS]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
Satanas, try hitting the "Quote" button and not the "Replay" button when you replay to someone. This way others will be able to know who or what you are answering.

- Amina

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#9150 - 05/28/08 06:55 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: SATANAS]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
satanas did you not say you would heed my advice when you first got here? 21 post in 2 days and not one of substance just you aruging over if Ramirez was a satanist. ta2zz explained it beautifully to you

A true Satanist would say I did what I did because I wanted to, and have no need to think otherwise… One might also say a true Satanist would never get caught because they would be smart enough to know what when and where to do or not do something…

the only thing i can see and may help you see anothers point of view is this.. since you so fond of quoting lavey and your very definition of a satanist by what anton had to say about it..look at this way .had Ramirez done these things to some one that had seriously wronged him ,this would have be the act of vengeance (satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek) no matter how deranged the act, Ramirez would have destroyed his enemy. but that is not the case.

now granted lavey talks about indulgence but also of living a vital existence how much indulging can you do on the inside waiting to be snuffed out? have you done any time?,i have and the options for indulgence are very limited and time on the inside is far fucking from a vital existence.

stupidity is one of the satanic sins yet Ramirez got caught,strange indeed.

(responsibly to the responsible)yet the coward could not say that he did it because he wanted to as ta2zz so eloquently put it.no Ramirez needed to do what xians for centuries have done and blame the big bad devil.

so these reasons along with what every one else on their thread said should show you that even by your idols definition (ie anton lord of all that is satanic) that Ramirez was not a satanist in his eyes. but if this is what needed to get thought to you how are that far off from an xian praising jebus?
anton has become your Messiah ,your king of kings. a satanist lives in no man,gods or idols shadow

think for your self that is the first fucking step in living as satanist.

at either rate if you keep posting this amount of of post in so small a time frame with no substance my Alaskan friend ,you will get your ass banned very soon, im actually suprised you have not been already. heed my adivce and just mellow out do some reading on the site.
_________________________
http://www.sintheticgraphics.com

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#9152 - 05/28/08 07:52 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: rob_church]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: rob_church
since you so fond of quoting lavey and your very definition of a satanist by what anton had to say about it..look at this way


One could also add that LaVey was very much pro law and order. It is okay to act in self defense and kill someone who attacks you, and casting a curse in the hope that the victim will die, but I don't think LaVey would recommend actually killing the person, at least not unless you are 100% sure to get away with it, and maybe not even then. In connection with LaVeys view on sexuality he explains that compromising someones sexual freedom by forcing then to do something they don't want to do is to act against *there* sexual freedom. One would think that if you think raping people is bad, killing strangers would be at least as bad. I would think that killing is the worst thing you can do in regard to compromising other peoples freedom...

- Amina

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#9177 - 05/29/08 02:00 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: SATANAS]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: SATANAS
like when i say that i worship the devil - shit im a satanist - i like to say it - i like people to know - im proud of it - im rollin with the devil - do you not feel this way ?

Do I feel the need to proclaim myself or my beliefs in such a simple manner to other like-minded individuals? The answer to that is NO I am not that needy… The need for shock value has dwindled since high school... How about you?

 Originally Posted By: SATANAS
and though you come off as a rather nice fellow - im not - i dont need to capitalize my i's to be a satanist - thats what i am - or did you think you were the only one –

Heh you have not done anything to bother me beyond your first silly pm to me… Even so it only showed me your ignorance as to how this forum works… You apologized for that so I will give you time to adjust…

So until you need to see differently consider me a nice guy… You do not need to do anything you can sit lazy and stagnant only impressing teenage girls and lost young men with your rhetoric… Call yourself Satanist I stand amused… 10 years of your form of Stagnatism err-ah Satanism

I am nothing like you sir, I understand fully what I title myself…

Thanks

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#9185 - 05/29/08 07:43 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Amina]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
 Originally Posted By: Amina
I would think that killing is the worst thing you can do in regard to compromising other peoples freedom...


When comparing killing to raping, I tend to keep the latter worse. Sure, death can be quite limiting to your freedom, but so is rape and you have to live with it the rest of your life. Some have been able to overcome it, but some carry the emotional scars the rest of their lives and it may be limiting what comes to their relationships and intimacy.
Personally I'd rather be dead than incapacitated.

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#9187 - 05/29/08 08:02 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: MaggotFaceMoe
Personally I'd rather be dead than incapacitated.


I don't believe in any kind of life after death. Being alive at least give you a chance of something good. Not all can overcome rape, but then again, some people commit suicide because of broken relationships or because they hate there own looks. Some break easy, some get stronger when faced with crisis.

- Amina

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#9188 - 05/29/08 09:14 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Amina]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
Sure thing, I've met few who have had the strength.
But then again, you wouldn't know you're dead when it actually hit you. No time to cry about it then \:\)
Of course it's only my opinion, and should something terrible ever come way I might feel otherwise and start looking at life from a different angle and respect it more.
It's just that even when I'm content, I rarely see anything special about life, and just wonder what it would be like when all comes crashing down.
And I don't think it's because I can't be strong when facing difficulties, it's more about the meaningless of it all. I don't see life as sacred, it's more like a moment's luxury.

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#9189 - 05/29/08 09:19 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: MaggotFaceMoe
But then again, you wouldn't know you're dead when it actually hit you.


I know, but my kids would miss there mother etc. I guess you don't have kids yet...

- Amina

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#9190 - 05/29/08 09:29 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Amina]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
Nope, not yet.
I see your point. Guess my take on life would be a lot different should I also have offspring.

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#9191 - 05/29/08 10:05 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
PigFeeder Offline
member


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Near Montreal, QC
First off, I am not in a bad mood Nahara, I simply point out what I see. Call them as I see them metaphor. So quite literally, I'm trying to give you the kick in the ass towards the right direction, while letting you find out which way that is.

Satanas, I can see where your coming from. I don't agree with you on this Ramirez guy but I can see your point of view on Satanism. It sounds although, like you have a lot of learnign and research to do. You sound a lot like you would coincide with the beliefs and moral grounds of Traditional Satanism. Worshipping satan more of as a Deity rather then self-power. I try to be fair on what I see as fair. I won't be harsh to the poitn where you won't listen, I will be harsh to the point where you will see the truth. You don't needa PHD to be here, but true Satanists in general are prided in the fact that we are above the sheep, who seem to follow what everyone else says and does. We pride in knowing what we are talking about, and if we are to claim the right to call ourselves 'Satanists', then we know we must knwo what that title entails.

"Know what you preach, before you preach it. Know what you claim, before you claim it".

Feeling great because you're "rollin'" with Satan, sounds liek somethign a teenager tryign to rebel would say. I can understand how you might, if you did research, would feel elightened. In truth, all us true Satanists, feel higher, or empowered. I say this in the sense that, we know we are higher in knowledge in knowign the truth, knowing that we aren't following like sheep. We all are alike in some way, but we obtain the higher ground by self-empowerement. Herin lies where we are stronger, better than the rest. The trick is finding out who the fakes are, and the truly enlightened.

But who knows, I could be wrong. I state my opinion, but each will derive from what I write in eash his/her own way. But that is what makes us all different Satanists, we see thinsg in each our own way.

P.S. Don't mind Isaak, he always posts like that. Random ramblings of incoherrant child. I think he takes this stuff out of his local text book. but hey, you never know. Personally, it soundskidn of like he found it chalked in the sidealk and decided it sounded smart. The only time it makes any sense at all, is when it's written like that. It's an imporvement from his past posts, that's for sure...

Also I'd like to state that, however brilliantly any individual proves you wrong, or proves his points. No matter how much power they have over you in a specific forum, doesn't mean they are the sole Satanist. In sayign that, I would find it an insult to other Satanists; who would have perhaps otherwise just not bothered with troubling over such petty arguments and theories.





~Snow~.
_________________________
For all murderers, I am the leader.
Forever, Rob, The 49 PigFeeder.
NecroMantic Sin.

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#9399 - 06/05/08 02:02 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: PigFeeder]
Agrippa Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Atlanta, GA
My version of personal Satanism is rather unorthodox; while I take a lot of inspiration from LaVey and The Satanic Bible, I do not unite with the more objectivist/Nietzschean aspects of his philosophy and personally subscribe to a Marxist-Leninist perspective. In a sense, I view Lucifer as being the first revolutionary- a revolutionary leading a people's army against a violent, tyrannical god. Thus, for me, Satan is an inspiration in my opposition to religion, capitalism, and slavery of the mind. I still believe in the full power of the individual, but knows that, as Marx said, "In order to assert themselves as individuals, they must overthrow the State" (The German Ideology).

Some have accused LaVeyan Satanism as being nothing more than Ayn Rand with horror movie props; if that is true, one could accuse me of being nothing more than Karl Marx/Antonio Gramsci with horror movie props...

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#9405 - 06/05/08 08:31 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Agrippa]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
 Quote:
I do not unite with the more objectivist/Nietzschean aspects of his philosophy and personally subscribe to a Marxist-Leninist perspective


Do you live in a Socialist country, or do you simply subscribe to their idology, from a capitalist one?

The "collective" ideology, only works if there are big enough guns keeping their people under control. Try speaking your mind against the government in China, see how understanding your comrades there are.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#9494 - 06/10/08 07:32 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Asmedious]
Agrippa Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Atlanta, GA
 Quote:
Do you live in a Socialist country, or do you simply subscribe to their idology, from a capitalist one?


No, I like in the U$A, as unfortunately there are no truly socialist countries in the world at this time. However, the new Democratic Republic of Nepal seems to be coming close, and the revolutionary struggles in India, the Philippins, Bhutan, and Peru are breathing new life into revolutionary communism and bring great hope for the potential future.

Lucifer, for me, was the first revolutionary. He rebelled against the first (albeit fictional) bourgeois oppressor, the God who was a fucking oppressor in Heaven and Earth... He fell, but He still fights on. Yet, He Himself does not act like a "god" over us (metaphorically speaking, of course). As The Satanic Rituals says, the entities we call upon in our rituals should be seen as equals as brothers... as comrades.

To me, Satan represents the liberated man, man free of oppression, exploitation, and tyranny, whether it be from God, king, priest, president, or capitalist. Under communism, man will be able to be free as both individual and as a whole, and thus will be able to live naturally as humans- not simply cogs in a system that brainwashes them and tears them to pieces when it has no use for them. To me, "Hail Satan!" does not just mean "Hail Thyself!" (although that is very important!!!), but it also means "Hail Humanity!" "Hail the People!".

Now you're probably wondering "sounds great, but LaVey teaches us that man is the most savage animal of all, and human nature is incompatible with communism!"

Not so. Is there human nature? In a sense, yes. We have basic instincts and emotions that all humans have. However, how those instincts manifest can take many different forms.

As a person who does not believe in God, I find there something majorly wrong with the argument of "human nature" overall... By this argument, it is suggested there is some "magical force" within all people that makes them evil. Furthermore, Marx pointed out that the view that human nature dooms socialism to failure merely reflects the production relations within capitalism (and the society that it builds). Bourgeois economists assume that production relations within capitalism are somehow eternal (but just looking at human history since the rise of the State until the advent of capitalism shows that this is terribly wrong), or in any case the pinnacle of evolution for human relations, and that changes in society will always be in bourgeois ways.

There ARE certain characteristics to human nature that are brought out by capitalism... This is all part of the fact that UP UNTIL NOW there has not been a BASIS to eliminate scarcity and the struggle for individual existence. Greed is a SURVIVAL technique, and only when it is needed to survive- and you DO need it to survive in a system like this- is it triggered within humans. Now, however, a material basis for humanity to eliminate scarcity has been established, and the persistence of capitalism is actually a hindrance to the further liberation of productive forces... and thus a hindrance to the growth of humanity as individuals and as a whole. NOW a social revolution is possible- and urgently demanded- to move humanity beyond on all that and to a new stage of human history... a Satanic age, if you will ;\)

If you have any further questions about communism, I would be happy to answer them. I've been a Communist for 6 years now, and an anti-capitalist since I was very young, so I have some decent grasp on Communist theory, so I might be able to answer your questions about the history, nature, and theories.

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#9497 - 06/10/08 08:02 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Agrippa]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I dont believe that everyone is equal.
I dont believe that every job someone does is worth the same amount of money as any other job.
I think that greed may be a motivational tool just like the drive to succeed is a motivational tool.
I see too many people willing to sit on their ass for a check instead of doing something/anything to earn a paycheck.
If I am busting my ass, I am damn sure that I am going to make more money than someone sitting at home with a kid or an excuse.

"a material basis for humanity to eliminate scarcity has been established"
What do you mean by this?


"a hindrance to the growth of humanity as individuals and as a whole."
I find christian religion to more of a hinderance than the government in this respect.


"the persistence of capitalism is actually a hindrance to the further liberation of productive forces"
I can agree and yet disagree with you on this.
It is a companies financial interest to make money. If they can improve a product for cheaper cost, they will do it. On that same note, is the reason why usa jobs have moved to India (cheaper costs).
With that in mind, is the same job an american does worth more than the same job an Indian does. No, not really, but it is the cost of living, and a reasonable living wage that the company doesn't wish to pay.
With that in mind, I dont see a communist government lasting long if it will pay equally its workers in India, and the usa. It will just outsourse everything, and pay people in the usa nothing.

With all that in mind, most people will still do the least amount of work possible if they can help it. Under your system, would people be forced to things they dont want to do, or be put into labor camps?

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#9507 - 06/10/08 11:09 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Agrippa]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
To me, Satan represents the liberated man, man free of oppression, exploitation, and tyranny, whether it be from God, king, priest, president, or capitalist. Under communism, man will be able to be free as both individual and as a whole, and thus will be able to live naturally as humans- not simply cogs in a system that brainwashes them and tears them to pieces when it has no use for them. To me, "Hail Satan!" does not just mean "Hail Thyself!" (although that is very important!!!), but it also means "Hail Humanity!" "Hail the People!".


Do you not realise that under Communism, you either have or you don't? You are member of the State. You are sworn to the betterment of the State. You work for the state. You give your earnings to the state. It's all for the betterment of the state. Unless you are a ranking official of the state, you are just a cog in the wheel that benefits the state. Communism and Satanism are so opposed to each other, it's like oil and water. I don't know what propoganda you have read, but it was wrong, as to your statement that I quoted. Keep believing that pipe dream. Hmmm, it wasn't that long ago that communist poeple were burning funiture for heat and the price of bread equaled the current price of gas. Very elite, very Satanic.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#9517 - 06/11/08 06:20 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: fakepropht]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
the only thing i hate more than someone who memorizes an ideology is a liberal with a communist ideology.

its the epitome of white lightedness in a secular manifestation.

and fuck that borg Hillary too.

“a communist reads Marx and Lenin. An anti-communist understands Marx and Lenin.” -Ronald Reagan

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#9523 - 06/11/08 05:17 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Agrippa]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
I was born in a so called “communist country,” which was a satellite of the Soviet Union, so when I say that Communism will never work, because it goes against the very nature of humanity I speak from some experience.

The interesting part is, that while visiting my country occasionally, while it was still under the Iron fist of communism, it appeared to be doing well, and the people were relatively happy. I would even go as far, as saying, that they were happier then the people in the United States.
Food was very inexpensive, and the government did provide housing.

Generally speaking, as far as I saw, most people lived close to the same economic level. There weren’t any very wealthy people, and very few that were very poor. As far as I know, no one had to go hungry.

However, the economy turned out to be a farce. It survived for years on borrowed funds, and borrowed time. The general populace did not have an incentive, nor a motivation to produce more, then the absolute bare requirement, because there were no bonuses for being motivated and productive.

Medical care was free, but realistically, a very high percentage of the doctors expected to be paid under the table, to ensure proper care and service.

The cream of the crop of the populace, such as researchers and scientists, often left (illegally) and immigrated to other nations where their talents, and learning would be appreciated and paid for.

When a person wanted to buy a new car, they at first would have to save up for it, which took many years. Then they would place their order for a vehicle, pay for it, then wait several more YEARS before delivery. Often times they didn’t even have the option to chose the color, and the product was junk.

People were afraid to speak their minds if it went against the government, because a possible midnight visit from the “party” was a real possibility.

On the positive side, serious crime was very rare.
On the negative side, so was due process. It wasn’t uncommon for the cops to drag a suspect into the station, and beat the crap out of them.
I have to admit, that this practice did deter small time criminals, which was a plus.

The only people that got ahead, were the ones who knew how to play the system, and buy and sell on the black market. These are the same individuals, that when communism fell, became very rich.

For example, I had an acquaintance who ran a bar. He did not make a profit from sales, but instead was paid a salary by the government.
However, he would buy liquor and beer from a store, then sell that and keep the profits.


The fact that communism doesn’t work, without capitalism, is proven by China. They make products that capitalists buy, because said capitalists have money to spend. Without the capitalists, China would not have a market to sell their junk to and would eventually collapse financially. (My opinion)

As was stated previously, people do not want to be equal. What they would like, is certain guarantees, such as housing, and medical care. However, someone has to pay for this, and the ones that are willing to accept and live on the minimum, would still be like vampires, who suck the life out of those that actually produce.

If there is no substantial incentive to those that produce, then most people would not care to go beyond the very minimal amount of work that they can get away with.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#9540 - 06/12/08 07:08 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: fakepropht]
PigFeeder Offline
member


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Near Montreal, QC
Seems like Propht got to it before I had a chance to, dang.. I have one thing to say though, your views on Communism are quite the opposite the actual reality. Take a look at current Communism countries; ever spoken to anyone forced to be ruled by Communism. Most despise it.. It is not freedom as a whole or as a person, quite the opposite. You are asked not express yourself and are forced to work FOR the country, not for yourself.

Hail Satan DOES mean Hail Thyself. It doesn't mean, "Help The World and Everyone Else Out.."


~Snow~.



Reply to: Not Propht..


Edited by PigFeeder (06/12/08 07:11 AM)
Edit Reason: Reply To:
_________________________
For all murderers, I am the leader.
Forever, Rob, The 49 PigFeeder.
NecroMantic Sin.

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#10186 - 07/12/08 05:52 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Isaak w shipley]
redstar Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 1
Loc: northen california
well hello this is my first time so please, have some understanding,,
I just want to bring back the original topic "what makes you a Satanist "
Im here to figure that out,.
My whole life I been confused about who I am. but two weeks ago I came to find a black bible at the local salvation army, stuck in the middle of a old dresser, I pick the book up.. After that so many things made sense about the way I was living my life.
These whole time I felt alone... Now things seem more clear. I want to find my self and this place makes me feel good..
any answers are welcome Thanx
_________________________
Help me take the blind fold off..

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#10193 - 07/12/08 03:55 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: redstar]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: redstar
well hello this is my first time so please, have some understanding,,
I just want to bring back the original topic "what makes you a Satanist "
Im here to figure that out,.

Good so far you capitalize your I when speaking of yourself… Very good start…

The original question was directed at you the reader… What makes “you” a Satanist…

 Originally Posted By: redstar
My whole life I been confused about who I am.

As many young people are…

 Originally Posted By: redstar
but two weeks ago I came to find a black bible at the local salvation army, stuck in the middle of a old dresser, I pick the book up..

By the black bible I take it you mean “The Satanic Bible”… Welcome to the beginning… Warning ignorance is truly bliss… Once the blinders are off they no longer fit…

 Originally Posted By: redstar
After that so many things made sense about the way I was living my life.

So the book fit you or you fit the book?

 Originally Posted By: redstar
These whole time I felt alone... Now things seem more clear. I want to find my self and this place makes me feel good..
any answers are welcome Thanx

The real answers you seek cannot come from any of us… The answers are inside of you, only you walk your path… Read and educate yourself on things you enjoy… Live life to its fullest…

Enjoy your stay here at the forum and revolving with us around the sun…

Peace

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#10208 - 07/13/08 12:41 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: ta2zz]
blackrose Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 6
"The real answers you seek cannot come from any of us… The answers are inside of you, only you walk your path..."

This is totally accurate; it's the response I would have given! Satanism is within yourself, and only you can decide for yourself how you want to live your life. That said, being a Satanist also means taking 100% responsibility for all that you say and do. It also means knowing you have the power within you to accomplish what you want, without relying on some vague, christian notion of "god".

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#10306 - 07/20/08 04:19 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Isaak w shipley]
steph Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 1
In reguards to people thinking if you need to ask these sort of questions you are trying to label yourself, i don't completely agree. I too am new to confirmed Satanism, as in i have only just read the Satanic Bible and identified myself with its principles, and would have asked the same question just to see whats the go, I hardly want to be criticized or ridiculed by other satanists who are more familiar with satanist ways. I don't think you are trying to hard, just clearing things up.
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#10307 - 07/20/08 11:52 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Japster]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
A very simple, but honest answer, as to what makes me a “Satanist” is that, I am no longer capable of being anything else.

As “Ta2zz” pointed out, once the blinders come off, they will no longer fit.
I couldn’t agree more with that. Once a person decides to see the world in a truly objective way, it gets more and more difficult to swallow societies bullshit.

This is not always a positive thing when it comes to socialization, and fitting in. Personally, I find that when I still had my blinders on, it was much easier to go through the daily grind and to play the “game.”

I find it interesting that in my case, many Christian proverbs and sayings truly apply to Satanism.
For instance, the one about having the amount of “faith” equivalent to the size of a mustard seed, which will in time grow into a big mustard tree, bush, or what ever the hell mustard seeds turn into. Something really big anyway. This principle works the other way around as well. If one has just enough doubt, equivalent to the size of a mustard seed, that doubt and questioning might grow the same way as blind “faith” does.

Figuratively speaking, in many cases, if we give the devil the chance to put his foot in the door, in time he will be in our house completely, and eventually there is no getting rid of him, nor would we really want to.

However, what most “Newbies” fail to realize, is how difficult “Satanism” can be. It is quite challenging for a person with eyes, to go through a very large society of blind people without bumping into some of them head on. Although we may see them coming, and try to avoid them, those blind fuckers just keep coming out of the wood work, and eventually they will bump into us, and our sight scares the shit out of them, and they want to make us blind as well.

The ones who fail at Satanism eventually, are the ones who cannot stand to see, and eventually pluck their own eyes out, because it is more comfortable to walk among the blind as a blind person. Yet, eventually even this will become impossible, because once one has truly seen, instead of just “felt,” the images and knowledge becomes part of the person and they cannot go back to ignorance, even if they wished to do so.

So take a lesson kiddies, it might be easier to listen to your parents, and keep the devil at bay, because once he gets a hold of you, he aint letting go.

*jumping off soap box*



Edited by Asmedious (07/20/08 11:55 AM)
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#10340 - 07/25/08 02:11 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Asmedious]
Orpheus Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 2
Hello this is my first time so please, have some understanding,,

I was born as a christian, and lived among the christian ambient. I used to be a good christian. Until i realized that I was corrupted by the hatred of myself. I hate when i saw people withnesses about the God, they looks so hypocrite to me. I hate when i saw people killing each other by speaking in the name of God. Along with the time this hatred corrupted me. I no longer worship the Jesus. I felt that i was forsaken by the God. Now i realize that i belongs here. But still I won't worship Satan nor the Jesus. I'm not marked myself as a satan's minion, considering myself as one of his ally. I just wanna find that path, the path to the place where i should be.

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#10345 - 07/25/08 07:32 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Orpheus]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
The path to where you should be is in front of you.
Go read, go get information.
Make an informed decision.

Go read the Satanic Bible.
There is actually a free copy in the media room.

It doesnt matter if you hate people, or hypocrites, but why hate yourself? You choose your life, you make your own decisions, if you are not happy change it and choose something different.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#10350 - 07/26/08 10:33 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Morgan]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Above all things the Left Hand Path requires love of self. If you cannot find it in yourself to do this, may I suggest Secular Humanism?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#10361 - 07/27/08 01:09 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Fist]
ubertrog Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 5
Ever since I was old enough to know what pain was, I've given the latter half of my life's ambition over to satan. You know how some people "give it up to God" when they can't figure out why their life isn't working out for them? When I think the world is shit, and it's not my fault, I think about how it should be, and who's fault it is that it isn't the way I want it. Then I basically hope the worst for whomever is in the way, and wait until I come across another situation exactly like that one. I definately think that there is a God, and I definately think that he is a selfish man with no time or energy for myself, and he feels that it is in his best interest to look down on people like myself for many reasons, and wouldn't have the balls to face me in a social setting or ask of me a favor. Satan on the other hand, encourages me to empower myself, and not give all of the credit over to him as I take baby steps into a false reality. I think that you become a satanist when you know that it's ok to ignore as many people as it takes to prove to yourself that you are right.
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#10368 - 07/29/08 07:07 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: ubertrog]
Xande Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Arlington, TX, USA
 Quote:
Ever since I was old enough to know what pain was, I've given the latter half of my life's ambition over to satan. You know how some people "give it up to God" when they can't figure out why their life isn't working out for them?


You've "given" your life over to Satan? Satanism at heart is about the exaltation of Self, and making decisions to better oneself as deemed fit through a self-possessed set of intrinsic values. Thus, no sacrifice of individual values can be in any way conducive to Satanism. Since you used the phrase "give it up to god" as a means to further illustrate your point, one can easily determine the process you're using to identify yourself as a Satanist is identical to the one used by Christians to arrive at their theistic designation.

 Quote:
When I think the world is shit, and it's not my fault, I think about how it should be, and who's fault it is that it isn't the way I want it. Then I basically hope the worst for whomever is in the way, and wait until I come across another situation exactly like that one.


Besides being an absolutely horrendous misuse of the English language, this statement contains an equally horrendous supposition: your environment, as well as the social structure it houses, is beyond your ability to change it. That is patently false. Should you desire a true change, it is well within your power to facilitate such a change, in accordance with your will. Anything less is accepting slavery by proxy.

 Quote:
I definately think that there is a God, and I definately think that he is a selfish man with no time or energy for myself, and he feels that it is in his best interest to look down on people like myself for many reasons, and wouldn't have the balls to face me in a social setting or ask of me a favor.


Even if god existed, would he owe you any time or energy? Based on what I've read, most deities require some sort of advance praise for their work in order to shower you with the attention you so desperately desire...which is a decidedly human characteristic.

 Quote:
Satan on the other hand, encourages me to empower myself, and not give all of the credit over to him as I take baby steps into a false reality.


Satan, much like god, encourages you to do nothing, as both do not exist. It's fairly obvious at this point you haven't the slightest grasp on Satanism, and are relying on the mediagenic portrayal of "devil worship" to provide your framework. I'll call a spade a spade - you're a heretical Christian. I do realize batting for the other team can be fun, and I hope you'll realize at some point that both teams simply do not exist, and you're little more than a man in an empty field with a stick, swinging wildly.

 Quote:
I think that you become a satanist when you know that it's ok to ignore as many people as it takes to prove to yourself that you are right.


Ignoring other people and their respective viewpoints to cling to what could possibly be a falsehood doesn't make you a Satanist. It makes you a moron.
_________________________
“Faith” is acceptance induced by feeling in the absence of evidence or proof.

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#10375 - 07/29/08 10:20 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Xande]
ubertrog Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 5
All things aside, I think I can prove you correct in calling me a moron when I say that I can't ignore what you just said. What I meant by saying "ignoring" people is that there is a majority out there that believes in "christ" or "god" or "the devil", and they are all wrong. What satan gives you is the opportunity to say that all of those people can be placed on an even playing field with you, if you just realize that you have the same potential as they do. I think that the satanist can have the same potential as god if he or she chooses to make the correct choices. If there indeed are gods, and also satan, as well as all of us, then, we have to, as directed by Satanism itself, point out the character defects that those deities may have, and exploit them as different than our own triats. I think that we have an upper hand over god and we are very lucky, and satan was just intelligent enough to point that out to us all.
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#10376 - 07/29/08 10:35 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: ubertrog]
Xande Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Arlington, TX, USA
 Quote:
What I meant by saying "ignoring" people is that there is a majority out there that believes in "christ" or "god" or "the devil", and they are all wrong.


This is followed by...

 Quote:
I think that we have an upper hand over god and we are very lucky, and satan was just intelligent enough to point that out to us all.


Besides the obvious contradiction in the two quotations above, when placed in direct parallel of your directly admitting to believe in the Christian definition of both god and Satan in your earlier text, it would seem that you have quite the amorphous strand of views in reference to Satanism.

Also, I didn't call you a moron. I merely stated that a viewpoint such as the one you described is a very moronic one. I'm not attempting to fight with you. I'll say no more on the matter.
_________________________
“Faith” is acceptance induced by feeling in the absence of evidence or proof.

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#10397 - 07/31/08 01:57 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Japster]
sipple2004 Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Logan, WV US
To me, Satanism is just a lifestyle some of us are sensible enough to live. If you live like a satanist and believe as one. And if you are familiar with all of the Satanic rituals and behaviors, then you are a satanist. This isn't Christianity. We don't need to be baptized. We are already who we are and were.
_________________________
Josh Sipple

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#10398 - 07/31/08 02:03 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: redstar]
sipple2004 Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Logan, WV US
So far so good bro... I'm a newbie also, but u do what it takes to find your happiness. Fuck everyone else... some are meant for this lifestyle and some aren't and some are too afraid to be open minded enough to learn about it. You will find your path. As will I.
_________________________
Josh Sipple

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#10809 - 08/20/08 05:56 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Isaak w shipley]
£ëë† Offline
banned
stranger


Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Hell
Blood Line my great great great grandfather was one of the satanic founders from back in the day

Alister Crowley photo of him at age 14 is my avatar and we look just alike
_________________________
£ëë†

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#10841 - 08/21/08 03:58 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: £ëë†]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Originally Posted By: £ëë†
Blood Line my great great great grandfather was one of the satanic founders from back in the day

Alister Crowley photo of him at age 14 is my avatar and we look just alike

Words like these really are funny.
There is no bloodline whatsoever in any religion. The only thing you can get from your ancesters are your genes and the biologist in me knows that "magical powers" or philosophy can't be given away to the children. (Except if they are being indoctrinated).

1) I have some doubts Crowley was the first Satanist ever. I'd say the first one was the first thinking individual who doesn't follow the group but leads them and stands out.
2) It is easy to claim you may look like him if you haven't posted a picture of yourself. In this case we have to take you on your word but as well thinking individuals we would like some proof.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#11155 - 09/01/08 11:36 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Japster]
Raziel LaVey Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 27

I know that this must sound really stupid, but I do reall ywant to know what do you do to become a Satanist?

I've read the Satanic Bible now, but is there any specific things that needs to be done to become a Satanist. I've got no chance in doing a full ritual as I'm currently in prison so I dont have access to the equipment to do the ritual. I do really want to beocme a real Satanist with all the benefits, but how will I be able to do this. Is there any books on this?



You would be interested to know that it can be as simple as sitting and meditating on what Satan means to you. Simple acts of faith and devotion are all that is necessary.

He is a part of you, and if you are being real that's all that matters.


Edited by Raziel LaVey (09/01/08 11:37 PM)

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#11256 - 09/06/08 11:12 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Raziel LaVey]
memphischick Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 27
Loc: Memphis, Tennessee
I believe I was born a satanist but I was raised in a christan home, and hated every bit of it. I never really beived in the god they worshiped every sunday. I have always believed that I was my own person and could believe in what I want to believe in and not what people told me to believe.
I read gods bible and the Satanic Bible and the Satanic Bible was easier to understand and I liked what I was reading and from then on I have known. I have been disowned by some people in my family but if they can't accept who I am then thats thoier loss
_________________________
BITE ME!!

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#11717 - 09/21/08 09:53 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Japster]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
I'm discovering Lavey's Satanism, having already read half of the Satanic Bible.

I've been a theist satanis when I was a teen-ager, I then converted to christianism, but I didn't felt totaly well there. I took a step back from christianism but looking at boudhism side. But again, there are some non-sense, some "cul-de-sac" in some of their reasoning paths.

Recently, I was in trouble and I had a big anger against "the universe/ life / god /..."

"Seek & you'll find, knock and you'll be opened" they say. It's 20 years I find & seek sincerely.

I now realise I indeed always thought as a Satanist. I never considered as belonging to any church. I was rather disgusted by the difference between the acts and the words of the catholic church. I tried sincerely to follow Jesus, but it did not really brought me to hapiness. The same by practising meditation (mainly zen). I don't regret as I learned a lot in these experiences.

Now, I really feel (I'm talking of a gut-feeling) that I'm a Satanist.

May be I'll want to join th CoS or the FSC, but it's not the most important.

Now, are you satanist? Up to you to see...

But if you're looking at Satanism just for getting some easy benefits from "magic rituals" you're probably not far on your "personal evolution / spiritual way" & you risk to be disappointed...

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#11725 - 09/22/08 08:13 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Fabiano]
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
Well, it's good that you found your path at last... let's hope it's the good one this time.

Joining CoS or FSC not living in USA is quite hard - and pointless - as far as I know. Being french (I live in the north, near Lille, so we're not very far from each other btw ;\) ), I know what I'm talking about, I wanted to join a Church too but after getting some info I knew it wouldn't be OK because of my geographic position.

But you don't need it, this forum is nice to share some ideas and feel you're not alone in worst doubt moments. Satanism mainly consists in being (on) your own...

Do you speak French ? (my belgian geography is just terrible ) If you do we could have some chat. PM me if you want to.

Sorry, was kind of off-topic
_________________________
In the end everyone dies...

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#11728 - 09/22/08 09:44 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Impius]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
Hi,

Joining a church is not a goal to me. It's rather accessory.

In fact, even in the past I always stayed aside/apart from the group.

Anyway, it's not for soon as I want to dig a little bit in Satanism to figure out by myself.

I'll not miss to post msg if I have some question raised during my reading of TSB.

The "problem" I had up to now in my "spiritual path" is that I never succeded in putting my intelligence in the fridge; ending by giving up and stop thinking for beleiving.

In Satanism I feel free to use my logical and rational. Poeple are generaly very open minded and I like it.

See you soon !


Edited by Fabiano (09/22/08 10:31 AM)

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#11769 - 09/23/08 05:51 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Fabiano]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I was raised in a Catholic household, but my parents were mostly secular-minded and didn't know too much about what they professed to believe in. Consequently, I was probably one of the only people in my family who really looked for meaning in my religion. From the exterior it seemed like I embraced Catholicism, which I did for a long time, but most of it was spent trying to reconcile my own truths with those that were presented to me by the bible and the Church's teachings, which I could not ultimately accept. The whole demonization of human nature, "love thy enemy" thing, and idea of "sanctity" never did fly well with me. It was simply a matter of admitting that I could never be a genuine Christian and still remain true to my own core values.

My experience with Gnosticism, Paganism, and LaVeyan Satanism led me to look into Theistic Satanism, which I realized I embraced the philosophy thereof wholeheartedly... except for the little "theistic" part, since I finally admitted to myself how ridiculous the idea of the supernatural was. However, by then I had recognized that the principle of "Satan" or "Lucifer" existed as a transcendental force of human nature that I embraced, and was certainly worthy of my religious exaltation.

I agree with Fabiano; joining a church is more of an accessory than a primary necessity of Satanism. Same goes for ritual. I consider myself a satanist simply because I live life according to my own "satanic nature", so to speak.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#12244 - 10/05/08 07:08 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Isaak w shipley]
BloodHorn Offline
member


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 131
Loc: Stockbridge Ga
i would say what makes one a satanist is simple.being human.atleast in the levayan way.im sure many will argue that but thats the way i see it and maybe i will change my mind once i get more experienced in this.
_________________________
Fuck You And Your Thoughts, I Have My own
Hail The Swords Of Darkness

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#12612 - 10/13/08 07:53 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: BloodHorn]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Steps to becoming a Satanist.

1:Be born into the 10% of humanity that doesn't require theism.

2:Be born into the 1% of that 10% that feel the black flame burning inside them.

3:Read about Satanism, recognize yourself there, understand it, and claim it.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#12621 - 10/13/08 08:33 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
First I'm convinced you born as a Satanist, you do not become one.

1) I don't know what you put in "théism", do you extend it to "mysticism", "spiritual experiences" "supernatural" ?

If yes, then we should not forget that TSB is also about magic thus touching the "supernatural" side.
If no, then notice that buddhists are not "theists" stricto-sensu...

2) The black flame? If it's my rebel mind, the fact that I never accepted SPiritual Slavery, My tendence to stay "aside the group", my attraction for the "drak side" of life. The yes, I got it. If it's something else, please explain...

3) Reading and learning does not change nothing to the fact you're born (or not) as a Satanist. But I didn't said it's useless. Regarding clainming it, there is a thread about being Satanist in Public and there are many diiferent opinions/views on the subject...

Fabiano

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#12622 - 10/13/08 08:39 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Fabiano]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

1) I don't know what you put in "théism", do you extend it to "mysticism", "spiritual experiences" "supernatural" ?

Well, this is conjecture, admittedly, but I believe there are two types of people on this earth. The type of people that NEED a skydaddy type figure to make the world make sense, and those that do not.
Looking around we can see most humans fit into the first category.
 Quote:

2) The black flame? If it's my rebel mind, the fact that I never accepted SPiritual Slavery, My tendence to stay "aside the group", my attraction for the "drak side" of life. The yes, I got it. If it's something else, please explain...

I think you already know what I'm talking about.
\:\)
 Quote:

Reading and learning does not change nothing to the fact you're born (or not) as a Satanist. But I didn't said it's useless.

I agree, reading and learning does not change the essential 'you'. I chose the word 'recognized' quite carefully.

 Quote:

Regarding clainming it, there is a thread about being Satanist in Public and there are many diiferent opinions/views on the subject...

Claiming it for yourself doesn't have to mean sharing it with others \:\)
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#12624 - 10/13/08 08:50 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Japster]
Man of the Earth Offline
lurker


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 4
Loc: NE
As Satanism is very individualistic nobody can really tell you how to "be" a Satanist. All one can really do is tell you what makes them a Satanist. To that end, I consider the foundation of Satanism an awakening. When one removes all possible points of view from taking precedence within the mind for a variable length of time, the psychological "I" that one builds around ones self disintegrates. When this "I" disintegrates so does the world view that supports it. Its an awakening to the flesh, the animal, the primal, its true freedom. After that initial awakening, one crafts the existence one wishes to live free and unhindered by limitation, which is not to say it will be easy. Some men are born this way, others must work for it, either way "Always look for a better position".
_________________________
Nick

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#12627 - 10/13/08 09:29 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Man of the Earth]
primal-mortal Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Totally agree, individuals should give in to their carnal instincts (whatever you desire) not supress those urges. bottling up your natural desires can only lead to self deceit. Human and proud to be just another animal! This always made alot of sense when it came to the big "life" question for me.
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#12629 - 10/13/08 10:00 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: primal-mortal]
BloodHorn Offline
member


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 131
Loc: Stockbridge Ga
to make shit simple. You are right Primal-Mortal people should give into there carnal instincts. It is a natural thing. If the Christian bible is right then that god is laughing at us. And if the Christan bible is true then fuck that god i would rather burn in hell then serve a god that puts a natural thing into me, Then tells me to not use it, So to speak. FUCK THE CHRISTIAN GOD.
_________________________
Fuck You And Your Thoughts, I Have My own
Hail The Swords Of Darkness

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#12654 - 10/14/08 05:15 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: BloodHorn]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I don't give Yahweh too much thought. He's obviously a made-up fraud who cannot possibly be "the one true God" except in the deluded minds of his followers.

A materialist view makes so much more sense to me. The earth is all we have, and man is clearly an animal- so why deny it? There's nothing shameful about it.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#12671 - 10/14/08 08:38 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The Zebu]
primal-mortal Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
exactly that just animals at the top of the food chain. Not handed down by some "higher being," not driven by any divine force, other than that of your natural instincts
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#16934 - 12/25/08 08:37 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Chey Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 12
You are a Satanist as soon as you call yourself one.
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#16936 - 12/25/08 08:40 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Chey]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
Am I a doughnut as soon as I call myself one? You can live as a Christian and praise Jesus, but as soon as you call yourself a Satanist you are one? Even if you don't agree with it?

Your not a Satanist until you at least start to think like one.


Edited by Mike (12/25/08 08:40 PM)
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#16948 - 12/26/08 12:43 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Mike]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Agreed. It's been quoted to death, but here it goes anyway... "Satanists are born, not made".

In my view, I've always been a Satanist because it's the way I've always naturally thought. It was simply a matter of realizing that my beliefs had such a label.

However there are always a few pathetic sods who tout around the name to cover up their own failure, like it's some kind of badge that makes them seem like "tough guys" even though they're losers with no control over their lives. I judge a "Satanist" based on what he does. Not what he calls himself.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#16956 - 12/26/08 04:32 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Chey]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Quote:
You are a Satanist as soon as you call yourself one.


I once knew a parrot that could say "I am human". Was he really?

D.

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#16986 - 12/26/08 04:42 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The Zebu]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
However there are always a few pathetic sods who tout around the name to cover up their own failure, like it's some kind of badge that makes them seem like "tough guys" even though they're losers with no control over their lives. I judge a "Satanist" based on what he does. Not what he calls himself.


Anyone with that "tough guy" attitude you speak of obviously does not understand the true meaning of Satanism, no matter what form it may be. By taking on the title "Satanist" to make themselves look like something they are not is self-deceitful. Others who understand Satanism can tell this as well. If you can't be true to yourself, you are inevitably a fake to not only yourself, but everyone around you. Everybody judges whether they believe it or not. If you use the title Satanist to have the "bad ass" reputation, you must be open for people to judge you for exactly who you are.

And yes, Satanists are born. Even according to the bible we are born Satanists due to "original sin" and the fact that are true nature is to sin. With that said, anyone who follows any path but their own and gives into their true nature is self-deceitful and trying to be something they are not.

Chey: It's not that your a Satanist as soon as you call yourself one..You are a Satanist as soon as you realize you are.
_________________________
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#16987 - 12/26/08 05:24 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Mike]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
It's not that your a Satanist as soon as you call yourself one..You are a Satanist as soon as you realize you are.

By what standards? Some realize they are satanists by the standards "Praise the dark lord" and other theories wich come from inversed christians without a brain. (Was that part a contamination?).
Just keep it: everyone is a born satanist. However some REdiscover true satanic nature, some stay indoctrinated and use the term falsly to show their idiotism. Which actually comes in handy for a real satanist so he can use their minds and do his biddings in a subtle way. To afterwards throw them in the same garbagecan where all other idiots, that didn't match his standards, are.
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#16989 - 12/26/08 05:47 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
By what standards?


By understanding our true nature as human beings and how Satan is symbolic for that in the sense that he stands for freedom and embracing ones true self.

 Quote:
Some realize they are satanists by the standards "Praise the dark lord" and other theories wich come from inversed christians without a brain.


What I meant was that once you starting searching and walking your path and stumble across Satanism you will begin to see exactly what it means to be a Satanist, and if they look hard enough into it they will understand the true meaning of the term.

 Quote:
everyone is a born satanist. However some REdiscover true satanic nature


That's exactly what I meant by "realizing" you are a Satanist.

[quote[Which actually comes in handy for a real satanist so he can use their minds and do his biddings in a subtle way[/quote]

What kind of person exactly would you consider to be a "real" Satanist? LaVeyan Satanists? Theistic Satanists? Anyone who considers themselves a Satanist of any sort will believe they are a "real" Satanist by their standards. How do you know which is the real form of Satanism, or do you mean all Satanism is the same and therefore there is only one Satanism? Enlighten me.
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#16991 - 12/26/08 06:12 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Mike]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Oh my god, this is getting so fucking pathetic.

Everyone born a Satanist?

Standards/types of Satanism?

These types of statements are proof positive of cluelessness.

Please go jump off a bridge.
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#16992 - 12/26/08 06:48 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Oh my god, this is getting so fucking pathetic.

Yes it is these little posts that have nothing to say but you are useless or clueless go kill yourself...

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Everyone born a Satanist?

I understand what Mike was saying to bad you couldn’t… I guess that makes me just as clueless to you, as you are close-minded to me...

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mike as you are still trying to figure things out for yourself… Stop trying to teach others or say that things are a certain way when you’re not sure yourself…

~T~

Remember children even the village idiot has a lesson to teach… If you’re smart enough to listen and learn it…
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#16993 - 12/26/08 07:31 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: ta2zz]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Oh I understood what was being said, it was just bullshit. Just like so much around here attempting to represent itself as Satanism. If you agree with the bullshit, good for you.

Being a Satanist is not the 'natural' state of everyone. If you believe that you are a sucker.

And if you have such a weak grasp on what Satanism is to believe it can be anything and it is some formless nebula that can manifest as whatever the fuck anyone wants it to, well whatever.

Not my problem.

If that makes me 'closed minded' in your view..I can live with that. In my experience 'closed minded' is a term used mostly by wishy washy flakes that aren't capable of forming firm opinions.



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#16995 - 12/26/08 07:35 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
I see by your outfit that you are a cowboy
I see by your outfit that you're a cowboy too
So come along stranger, I'll tell you a story
If you get the outfit you can be a cowboy too.

Sorry... it don't work that way. Clothes don't make the man. They're a costume.
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#16996 - 12/26/08 08:24 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: ta2zz]
Mike Offline
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Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
I see what you are saying ta2zz, and I agree, you're right. But on this topic I felt I had enough of a grasp on Satanism to try to explain these certain aspects of it.

And I don't know about "village idiot", but I do know some things, although people may make you believe the opposite. It doesn't matter to me all that much really, I'm more concerned with how I view myself then how others do.


Dan.....

 Quote:
Oh I understood what was being said, it was just bullshit. Just like so much around here attempting to represent itself as Satanism. If you agree with the bullshit, good for you.


...Can you back that up?

 Quote:
Being a Satanist is not the 'natural' state of everyone. If you believe that you are a sucker.


...Or that? Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough in my post...Ta2zz understood.

 Quote:
And if you have such a weak grasp on what Satanism is to believe it can be anything and it is some formless nebula that can manifest as whatever the fuck anyone wants it to, well whatever.


Then can you explain what Satanism "is"? Maybe there aren't different "types" of Satanism, but Satanists can obviously have different opinions that would set them apart from the rest of the herd (referring to wherever this thread has gone). I don't mean to sound like a jerk here but how can anyone be sure of what Satanism is when there's so many people claiming to be Satanists that have different views on certain situations, even on what makes you a Satanist. If you don't believe Satanists are "born" (which LaVey clearly stated in TSB), and you consider yourself a LaVeyan Satanist, aren't you contradicting yourself a bit?


Edited by Mike (12/26/08 08:30 PM)
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#16998 - 12/26/08 08:46 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Mike]
Dan_Dread Offline
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No, I don't have to back anything up. It's all glaringly obvious to those that get it, and never will be to those that don't.

It's really that simple.
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#16999 - 12/26/08 08:53 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
No, I don't have to back anything up. It's all glaringly obvious to those that get it, and never will be to those that don't.

It's really that simple.


And who decides who get's it and who doesn't? The people who either do or don't get it?
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#17000 - 12/26/08 09:15 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
Replacing one form of bullshit with another is still just piling shit…
The answer it seems is simple just use a bit more wit…
From reading through your writings I see that you’re not meek…
Just saying go and kill yourself just comes off to me as weak…
Excuse me though I had no clue,
That you were here to define what's right and true…
It is enough to make you frown,
Seeing yet another man try to wear that crown…
This little rhyming ditty I just had to make,
To simply try to stay abreast of this man that they call Jake…

~T~
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#17002 - 12/26/08 11:59 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I think he misspoke a bit. I don't think he was trying to say that literally every single person on the planet is a born Satanist, but rather that every Satanist is such from birth.
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#17016 - 12/27/08 09:12 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The Zebu]
Picunnus Offline
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Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Ohio, USA
I thought he meant that we are all naturally born sinners. Does a Satanist not agree with this? We ARE all born sinners! I interpreted Mike to mean that Satanists are the ones who REMAIN heathens. We revel in it.
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#17018 - 12/27/08 10:39 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Picunnus]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
What the hell is a 'sinner'?

And assuming some sort of cogent explanation, how are christians less 'sinners' than the rest of us? I would say the 'sinners' would have to be the very ones that recognize sin, as such. Myself, I don't recognize the christian rulebook as legitimate.


And, Zebu, he was in fact talking about 'every human being', as the text actually read. We discussed this further in chat yesterday.

Most human beings are lazy, stupid, unmotivated and weak of will, by default. Satanists are born as the elite, being naturally driven, intelligent, motivated and strong willed. The inverse.
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#17019 - 12/27/08 11:18 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
By understanding our true nature as human beings and how Satan is symbolic for that in the sense that he stands for freedom and embracing ones true self.

And can you define our true nature? To be honest, only you can make up what YOUR true nature is. No one else can do it. Of course there are some main aspects everyone has in common. But most of the time you only know your true nature. The idea we all share a "universal common human nature" is just plain bullshit. Some aspects, yes: all aspects--> NO.

 Quote:
What I meant was that once you starting searching and walking your path and stumble across Satanism you will begin to see exactly what it means to be a Satanist, and if they look hard enough into it they will understand the true meaning of the term.

Now what you are saying here needs some revising.
If you stumble across Satanism you will not begin to see what it means to be a satanist. To state my response: there are theistic satanists with 30 years or so "experience" but who don't have a clue about Satanism I and others on this forum share in common. Does this mean he doesn't know what true Satanism is? Sure he does, but only he thinks theistic Satanism is the only "true" form while I may disagree on him.

 Quote:
What kind of person exactly would you consider to be a "real" Satanist? LaVeyan Satanists? Theistic Satanists? Anyone who considers themselves a Satanist of any sort will believe they are a "real" Satanist by their standards. How do you know which is the real form of Satanism, or do you mean all Satanism is the same and therefore there is only one Satanism? Enlighten me.

All sorts of Satanism are to certain persons "true" Satanism. I'm not going to point out which form is true. I only give positive opinions to the different kinds of Satanism with the highest credibility factor meeting my standards. (To clarify a point: theistic Satanism to me is actually inverse Christianity, but within this context I just make my explanation easier and let theistic Satanism count as Satanism).
You should look out for yourself what kind you want to belong to. You should find your own way, I only share information to clarify things or when someone asks for it NICELY.

 Originally Posted By: dan_dread
Most human beings are lazy, stupid, unmotivated and weak of will, by default. Satanists are born as the elite, being naturally driven, intelligent, motivated and strong willed. The inverse.

Can you state that part? I can reject it by saying some people are motivated and strong-willed by faith in a Christian God. And some are actually quite intelligent (but however fail with credibility when some answer who are more difficult to explain are answered with "GOD"). But then again.. when is someone intelligent? It depends mostly on reflecting towards your own standards.
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#17020 - 12/27/08 11:26 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
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How can you be 'strong willed' while at the same time believing in a philosophy that tells you you must 'submit' your will?

Seems a bit of a paradox.
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#17021 - 12/27/08 11:39 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dimitri Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
How can you be 'strong willed' while at the same time believing in a philosophy that tells you you must 'submit' your will?

Seems a bit of a paradox.

Some achieve a strong will by submitting their will.
It is quite paradoxal, but weirdly enough it actually makes sense. Will sometimes is connected to motivation. So Christians can be strong-willed by the motivation "fear". Or how else should I interprete some stay at christian philosophy even if you can clearly show they don't make sense?
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#17022 - 12/27/08 12:02 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
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I don't think it's possible to cultivate the will while at the same time willfully suppressing it. Cultivation of the will requires discipline and focus, and doesn't just happen by accident.
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#17023 - 12/27/08 12:22 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dimitri Offline
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Posts: 3151
Do not forget, christianity is one of the most over-thought lies.
It is possible to submit your will to an other person and let them think it is their own while actually surpressing theirs.
It all depends on how you put things into a perspective. Or how you let them interact with certain ideas. You can always plant a little seed of supression within someone.

Problem is, christians actually have a free will. But by fear (however they don't like it to admit) they surpress their own natural urges. However most natural urges can't be erased and still are within them. By trying to surpress it they get fucked by themselves.
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#17030 - 12/27/08 03:03 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
And, Zebu, he was in fact talking about 'every human being', as the text actually read. We discussed this further in chat yesterday.


And we agreed that SOME are born Satanists, and others don't have it in them. Thus, Satanism isn't for everybody (correct)? And you need to decide for yourself. From experience I can say it is not a religion for the weak. Hell, I don't know anyone as strong willed as some of the people I know that are Satanists, and I suppose it is their will that makes them what they are.


Edited by Mike (12/27/08 03:06 PM)
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#17039 - 12/27/08 07:48 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Jake999]
paolo sette Offline
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Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
In reply to the original query: Everything.
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#17059 - 12/28/08 08:18 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Mike]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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Of course Satanism isn't for everyone and to a degree it is futile to have the great "who is and who isn't" quiz. Some are, some believe they are and some pretend they are. The great trinity.

Will isn't the only thing what makes a satanist. You have to have an enormous will to flog yourself each evening for the impure thoughts you had during the day, like some religious did or do but we can all agree that this isn't something considered as very satanic. So will alone or being strong willed doesn't do much in in itself.

Will means nothing without control. If you have no self control, having will is of little use. After all, you'd have to know when you will something and when something is willed for reasons beyond you. What makes a satanist is all about realization and this realization is not something as simplistic as realizing one is a satanist. It requires a complete deconstruction of reality and of the self, all it stands for and then, a complete reconstruction that allows the satanist to recreate himself as something free from everything that is not his will. Again, it's not some simplistic process that is instantly done after reading the SB. It's a process of years.

The third stage, and really it's not a phase thing, more a continuous process in which realization is a priority and control flows from there, anyways the third stage, and this is where it gets harder, is the complete abandonment of societal or human morals and the acceptance that every approach to finalize his will is a good approach. This is where the satanist will leave the continent of humans and retreat to his own isle. This is what I imply when I say that the end always justifies the means. Ultimately, this is what will make the selection between be, believe to be and pretend to be.

D.

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#17085 - 12/28/08 03:36 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Japster]
Meq Offline
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Is everyone a born Satanist? Or are only a few?

Every newborn human is pretty weak, vulnerable and dependent on others' care. But this question is more about the potential of that newborn infant.

An essay I read a while back (I can't find it now - was it possibly one of Rick's?) concluded by stating that Satanism is the bedrock of raw human existence, to which people add their own layers of ideological 'paint'.
Satan, in short, represents the core of vital human existence.
A Satanist is defined as an elite individual who lives from this core.

The question therefore turns on the conception of 'nature vs nurture'.
In proclaiming "Satanists are born, not made", Anton LaVey seemed to come down on the side of 'nature'.

Although Satan is the core of human existence, not everyone has it in them to live like that - and their born nature (including genetics) plays a large role in determining how 'vital' they are likely to live.
Therefore, by LaVeyan standards, not everyone is born a Satanist.

However, 'born' here could also be interpreted in a wider sense, to include the family one is born into (i.e. 'nurture' in addition to 'nature').
Many human beings are born into dysfunctional families, which leaves them with lifelong mental health problems and an inability to realise their potential - as well as an inability to overcome these issues.

Tough shit, by Satanic standards.
Such an individual is not an elite Satanist - unless, in the words of Nietzsche - he discovers a means to "turn injury to his own advantage," so that "what doesn't kill him makes him stronger."
However, I have yet to discover a single human being this fully applies to in practice.
I personally would exclude Nietzsche himself from this category on grounds of his mental breakdown - but he at least had the honesty to not proclaim HIMSELF an 'Ubermensch' - unlike many pretentious 'Satanists' today.

Yes, this is a selfish and brutal philosophy, make no mistake about it. It's certainly not for everyone. Perhaps secular humanist morality or Wicca would resonate more with a wider audience.
But that marks one hallmark of a Satanist according to LaVey - their values are not those of the masses.


If I may play Devil's Advocate, however... an Existentialist would consider LaVeyan Satanism's belief that "Satanists are born, not made" to be a form of bad faith. In Sartre's view, "Man is nothing other than what he makes of himself", and has NO fixed 'nature' - so claiming one is living from one's fixed 'Satanic nature' would be seen as a self-deceptive excuse to avoid taking responsibility for what one decides to make of oneself.
The validity of this is of course is open to debate.

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#17087 - 12/28/08 04:57 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Meq]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Nature or nurture, it doesn't really matter in the end. The proof is in the pudding.

The end result is that ones words and actions tell the story.

Also, I wouldn't say people from 'dysfunctional' families are more or less likely to be Satanists. I myself was raised largely by murderers and bank robbers for my first ten years or so.

After that I was pretty much on my own.

If anything it made me stronger and more able to deal with reality than someone that had a 'normal' sheltered early existence.
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#17385 - 12/31/08 10:12 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Isaak w shipley]
ACF Offline
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Posts: 15
Loc: Hamilton Ohio
My whole life I've lived in a Christian family. But my whole life, I have questioned, seen through the lies, and diverted away from Christianity. As long as I could remember I have been asking whether what my family believes is true. I've always thought it to be false, and always thought there was something more out there. Something better. After alot of reading and researching about Satanism, it was all what I have believed in the whole time.
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#17421 - 01/01/09 06:10 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: ACF]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
It's not better, or worse... though it can be... both. There is nothing "more" here than there was "there"... but I get your meaning.

Good luck.
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#18050 - 01/12/09 08:23 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Jerry Offline
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i think what makes one a satanist is the understanding that you only live one life and you should live it how you want to live it.
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#18051 - 01/12/09 08:46 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Jerry]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
Being an existentialist and a hardcore agnostic it's tough for me to admit that the "born" theory definately applies to me. When reading about Satanism I found that most basic principles I had been practicing my whole life. In my case LaVey just gave me a place to hang my hat. So yes indeed, God made me a Satanist!!!
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#18052 - 01/12/09 08:47 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Jerry]
Mike Offline
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Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
i think what makes one a satanist is the understanding that you only live one life and you should live it how you want to live it.


What if a Christian realizes this? Are they then a Satanist? Just because this view is shared by many Satanists doesn't mean it's limited to just Satanists. There are many more aspects of Satanism than just having free will and "living life how you want to".

My suggestion to you is to read the Satanic Bible, and if you have a good enough understanding of it, you will see exactly what makes you a Satanist. Satanists are born, not made, and not everyone has what it takes to be a Satanist. "Realizing" you are a Satanist is nothing but giving yourself a title for what you already believe. And the Satanic Bible shouldn't change your mind either. If you are a Satanist, reading TSB should be like looking in the mirror and saying to yourself "wow, this sounds just like me".

And don't forget we must learn how to live life the way we want to. Becoming your own god requires you to have control over yourself. You need to somewhat "program" your subconscious in a way that will block out influence from any external force so that it is you who controls your thoughts and actions, which will result in having the ability to live life the way you want to. Also keep in mind the fact that this doesn't happen overnight, and it takes much effort to learn to control your environment as well. Having control over your environment means the ability to influence any situation to work in accordance with your will.

I'm just speaking my knowledge...I hope it helped.
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#18053 - 01/12/09 08:48 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
Mike Offline
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Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
When reading about Satanism I found that most basic principles I had been practicing my whole life.


My point exactly. You don't become a Satanist, you just realize that your beliefs have a name.
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#18054 - 01/12/09 09:06 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
Being an existentialist and a hardcore agnostic it's tough for me to admit that the "born" theory definately applies to me. When reading about Satanism I found that most basic principles I had been practicing my whole life. In my case LaVey just gave me a place to hang my hat. So yes indeed, God made me a Satanist!!!



You do realize that the agnostic viewpoint is diametrically opposed to Satanism right?

One of the most basic principles is the realization that there is NO "God". To be agnostic means to give the belief in "God" validity by being a fence sitter and saying; "Well, maybe.".
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#18071 - 01/13/09 01:32 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
OOps...busted..However that would only apply to atheistic Satanism. So really I have the freedom to do one (believe) or the other (not believe) whenever I feel like it, which is more freedom than merely being an Atheist. And isn't Satanism really about freedom? By the way, who the hell gave you the official rulebook anyway? I make my own rules as to what I believe.
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#18075 - 01/13/09 01:56 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
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Loc: Pennsylvania
...and then again which god am I giving validity too? Maybe I'm agnostic towards Satan but I absolutely positively do not believe in a Judeo-Christian god. Maybe I have a thing for space aliens and interdimensional beings? Oh wait Cthulhu yes that's what I believe in. Really I don’t care, you can pick whatever one you want.

I'm fond of #4 in this case.

Agnostic-noun 1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
–adjective 3. of or pertaining to agnostics or agnosticism.
4. asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge.
Dictionary.com
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#18076 - 01/13/09 01:58 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
daevid777 Offline
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And obviously, you don't know exactly "what" to believe.

Nothing wrong with that, and this is not meant as denigration.

Just be careful when you say "agnostic" - that opens a completely new can...
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#18077 - 01/13/09 02:08 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: daevid777]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
And obviously, you don't know exactly "what" to believe.


This is misspoken. It's not that I cannot believe, it is that I "will" not believe. I choose not to give one theory validity over the other. I have ones however I prefer, or ones I find work better than others, but again this is not about being undecided.
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#18079 - 01/13/09 04:29 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
 Quote:
I'm fond of #4 in this case.


 Quote:
4. asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge.
Dictionary.com


You may think I'm proving your point by these quotes, but I don't think so.

"Uncertainty" is the key word.
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#18080 - 01/13/09 04:50 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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 Quote:

...and then again which god am I giving validity too? Maybe I'm agnostic towards Satan but I absolutely positively do not believe in a Judeo-Christian god. Maybe I have a thing for space aliens and interdimensional beings? Oh wait Cthulhu yes that's what I believe in. Really I don’t care, you can pick whatever one you want.


This is crap. If you're agnostic, you are either agnostic about everything or about nothing. The reason is identical in all cases. Picking one above another only shows agnosticism is pseudo-intellectual fashion.

D.

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#18085 - 01/13/09 06:17 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
OOps...busted..However that would only apply to atheistic Satanism.


So then you are of the belief that other types of Satanism exist?

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
So really I have the freedom to do one (believe) or the other (not believe) whenever I feel like it, which is more freedom than merely being an atheist.


I have the freedom to shove my cock in a waffle iron, or, to not be a total retard.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
And isn't Satanism really about freedom?


Yes, freedom from esoteric thinking that has done nothing but slow down the progress of the human race.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
By the way, who the hell gave you the official rulebook anyway? I make my own rules as to what I believe.


Well if you must know, Satan gave me the official rule book… Go ahead and make your own rules if you want to, but that doesn’t make you a Satanist.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
and then again which god am I giving validity too?


By claiming to be a “hardcore agnostic” you are obviously giving validity to the idea of the Judeo-Christian god. The term agnostic applies to nothing besides that.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
Maybe I'm agnostic towards Satan but I absolutely positively do not believe in a Judeo-Christian god.


Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?


 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
Maybe I have a thing for space aliens and interdimensional beings? Oh wait Cthulhu yes that's what I believe in. Really I don’t care, you can pick whatever one you want.


If that is the case; beware of space aids and Cthuluoreah.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
I'm fond of #4 in this case.

Agnostic-noun 1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
–adjective 3. of or pertaining to agnostics or agnosticism.
4. asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge.
Dictionary.com


That right there proves my point. It is that very uncertainty that makes it very obvious that you are NOT a Satanist. You are a pansy fence sitting agnostic, who is too scared, or ignorant, to make a decision one way or the other.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
It's not that I cannot believe, it is that I "will" not believe. I choose not to give one theory validity over the other.


By choosing the agnostic standpoint, thus saying; “maybe”, you ARE giving validity to the ENTIRE theory.

 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
this is not about being undecided.


Yes, that is EXACTLY what it is about.
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#18089 - 01/13/09 09:13 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
Ok...

1 There is such a thing as theistic Satanism. Other modes of thought exist which are neither theistic or atheistic in the chaos/left hand path fields (Temple of Set, ,Illuminates of Thanateros are just examples.)

2.Saying that agnosticism only applies to Judeo-Christian thought is an outright falsehood.

3. “If that is the case beware of space aids and Cthuluoreah." -This is actually really funny

4.Finally, I am certain that NO ONE, not just me, can be certain about any belief system whether it be theistic or atheistic. Atheism is a belief which requires faith in something that cannot be proven. To believe that a god(s), deities or esotericism do not exist is a belief, a dogmatism which requires faith.
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#18090 - 01/13/09 09:26 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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So Bob, Betty and Ben are called to their boss for a review.
Being satisfied about their work he offers them two options to choose from. A: a raise in their paycheck and a company car or option B.

Now Bob, being the Atheist and rational in his approach decides to take option A. After all, he does not have any evidence what B can be so it is only rational to pick option A.

Betty being our nice theistic believer considers B. B could be a managers position or maybe a partnership into the firm so it is only in her best interest to select option B.

Now Ben, our true agnostic hero considers A and B. After pondering a while about it, he tells his boss he can't come to a decision. As long as he doesn't have ALL the data, he can never know what would be the right choice. So he tells the boss he decides to take none.

What does that tell us dear kids? Only that Betty and Ben are both idiots because any sane man or woman knows that in a case where there is no evidence for an option, it is always the most rational approach to go with what you know.

This is what happens at an intellectual level in an agnostic. It feels pretty stupid when put into a realistic perspective but then again, I never said agnosticism isn't stupid to begin with.

D.

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#18092 - 01/13/09 09:38 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Diavolo]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
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Loc: Pennsylvania
I agree. I’ll choose what works best in any given situation based on evidence/probability of a given result. However I will not believe that any choice can be canonized as absolute universal law. Certainty takes the fun out of gambling doesn't it?
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#18097 - 01/13/09 11:12 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Three things,

1)Agnosticism is theism-light. Apologism at it's finest.

As there is no rational reason to give the idea of deities even a passing glance, much less serious consideration, saying 'maybe' is as good as saying yes.

2)There is no such thing as 'theistic Satanism'. Satanism is a belief structure that turns theistic practice on its head. Satanism takes external deity and places it inward, and that is the very core of it. Theism is theism is theism, can never be Satanism. It is the exact opposite. Any representative from the temple of set would be quick to disavow any connection to Satanism.

3)Atheism is NOT a faith based belief. That is christian rhetoric, right there. Atheism is the absence of a belief in external deities, nothing more, nothing less. We are all born atheists. Theism is a meme that is programmed in later. It does not take any 'faith' to reject a ridiculous unevidenced and completely unsupportable claim, as presented by ANY imaginary friend based belief.
Atheism is no more a faith than bald is a hairstyle.
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#18100 - 01/13/09 11:45 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
One can say Atheism is no faith, except that one has faith in this assertion. One is absolutely sure that nothing else is existent except for that which is material/scientific I can assume? This is true even though scientific theories changes radically every few decades or so? I do conduct all business as an opponent of religious and philosophical dogmatism , all dogmatism. I won’t play favorites.
I fear I'm fueling a fire that is going horribly off topic and I do this even though I realize that arguing any dogmatic ideal is ultimately fruitless.
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#18104 - 01/13/09 11:56 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Any representative from the temple of set would be quick to disavow any connection to Satanism.


I do realize this and maybe I should have distinguished between LaVeyan Satanism and other uses of the idea of Satan (and similar archetypes).
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#18105 - 01/13/09 12:13 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

One can say Atheism is no faith, except that one has faith in this assertion.

Equivocation. You are using different definitions for each instance of 'faith' in this sentence. Tsk tsk, such tactics are quite dishonest. Or perhaps you aren't aware of it?

 Quote:

One is absolutely sure that nothing else is existent except for that which is material/scientific I can assume?

Well, yes. Science is a process, and it loosely translates, functionally, into 'knowledge and all legitimate methods of acquiring it'.We don't know everything yet, or even have a grasp of what 'everything' might entail, but anything that falls outside of this sphere is defacto unknowable. If it's unknowable then it doesn't manifest itself into reality in any tangible sense, so who cares?

 Quote:

I do conduct all business as an opponent of religious and philosophical dogmatism , all dogmatism

What do you mean here by dogmatism? It sounds as though you are advocating a system in which nothing can be known, nothing is real, and all knowledge is ethereal. Sounds rather pointless and counterproductive to me. Sometimes you have to quit humming and hawing and plant your flag, if you ever want to actually make progress.
 Quote:

I fear I'm fueling a fire that is going horribly off topic and I do this even though I realize that arguing any dogmatic ideal is ultimately fruitless.

Actually, critically examining firm claims, that you might call 'dogmatism'(claims such as there is a god, there is no god, etc), is the road to advancement. Some will stand up to scrutiny, and some will not. It is only when something fails to withstand scrutiny that it should be discarded.
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#18108 - 01/13/09 01:06 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
I disagree with the charge of equivocation. The def. I'm using, on both sides of the sentence, is implying that neither idea is worthy of trust. Idea #1= god(s) and the like/ idea#2= no-god(s) and the like. At least that was my intention.

At least you concede that there is that which is unknowable! That may not matter to you but it matters to me.
"Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted." Pointless? Perhaps. Counterproductive? Maybe. Some find it liberating.


Edited by The AntiChris (01/13/09 01:18 PM)
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#18114 - 01/13/09 02:09 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
I find my difficulty in explaining myself frustrating and for that I apologize and take full responsibility. I don't feel that philosophical models are useless, quite the contrary. I feel that the best philosophical explanations are however models, or working theories. This keeps open the possibility for continued improvement. In doing, the unknowable is always taken into consideration. Many ideas in the Chaos realms appeal to me and I have been influenced by it. I will not apologize for that. Most of what I'm saying here can be found in that literature in some form............. fucking can of worms.
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#18115 - 01/13/09 03:41 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Atheism is not saying "THERE CANNOT BE ANY HIGHER POWER OR SUPERNATURAL EXISTENCE WHATSOEVER AND THAT'S FINAL". Atheism exists within a framework of agnosticism, and basically says "There is no evidence to give me reason to believe in your funny idea that there is something called a 'God', so I don't buy it, sorry."

Why do people tie up the idea of "God" with worship? So what if there is some cosmic "Creator"? That doesn't mean we have to chant prayers and bow down in subservience to it, or that such a being would even care if we did such rituals. If there is a true God, then it would probably be far too infinitely complex and multidimensional for us to fathom, and exist beyond the petty human sphere of awareness.

But I will have to say that Theistic Satanism does exist, because it was invented by Christians, and that some people are unenlightened enough to buy into it. Why worship a deity? What do you get out of it? Some kind of afterlife or cosmic reward? It's nonsense.

To me, Theistic Satanism can fall into two categories (often a mix of both)...
1. Traditional Religion: For them, Satan is just another god to be worshiped with prayers and holy books, like all the other boring deities of RHP beliefs. Many of these people have missed the mark entirely.
2. Misdirected Energy: These people get the general idea that Satan represents self-deification and ultimate empowerment, but for some reason or another are still attached to the theistic crutch of "needing" an external god to worship. Like a child that can swim perfectly well, but is afraid to go into the water without arm-floats.
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#18118 - 01/13/09 04:14 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The Zebu]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

I disagree with the charge of equivocation. The def. I'm using, on both sides of the sentence, is implying that neither idea is worthy of trust

Faith, in the context of 'religious faith', is defined as 'belief without, or in spite of, evidence'. Atheism doesn't qualify, as no belief of any sort is required;rather, an absence of one. The belief in this instance is introduced externally, Atheism is just the default position. A brain dead vegetable is an Atheist. A plant is an Atheist. A rock is an Atheist. These things all lack the necessary belief to be otherwise.That these things lack the capacity to be otherwise doesn't even factor in, it is what it is. The fact that there even exists an 'ism' that describes essentially nothing is evidence only of mans inclination to take on fantasy beliefs.

So what you are essentially saying is that it takes faith to believe that Atheism is not a faith, which is nonsense. It is a cut and dried matter of etymological definition.
 Quote:

At least you concede that there is that which is unknowable!

Only hypothetically for the purpose of this discussion. In reality I do not think there is anything unknowable or beyond the reach of our potential understanding. I think a belief in the unknowable amounts to defeatism.

 Quote:

"Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted." Pointless? Perhaps. Counterproductive? Maybe. Some find it liberating.

If that is how you feel, perhaps you would feel more at home in a thelema based discussion group? That is, after all a tenet of that religion and not Satanism.
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#18125 - 01/13/09 08:04 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
[quote=Dan_Dread]
 Quote:
A brain dead vegetable is an atheist.


Ok you said it not me. I also don't agree with the criticism. In your defense though I will say that something has to have self-awareness in order to define itself and there isn't sufficient evidence for that.

Atheism being the "faith" that the material world is concrete, "hard", knowable, and not just a perception of the human mind or a result of brain matter smacking into other matter. Atheism is the faith that a singular form of human consciousness is valid and relevant to the rest of the universe while others are delusion. Some experiences are considered valid while others are considered not valid.I honestly don't mean to offend and I feel that Atheism is a completely honorable position. I was just having some fun for the sake of argument.


Edited by The AntiChris (01/13/09 08:17 PM)
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#18128 - 01/13/09 10:24 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well it really boils down to one thing when dealing with cosmology. You either believe in some sort of cosmological system, or you don't. Religious cosmology, including agnosticism, all sits in the same camp, that of requiring religious faith to function.

Choosing to abstain from throwing your cosmological ticket into the wind in such a way is really the only honest choice. All else is willful self deception.
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#18132 - 01/13/09 11:21 PM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The AntiChris]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Atheism is faith that "the material world" is concrete?

I'm sorry, but if something EXISTS, then it is material. If God exists, then GOD IS MATERIAL. You can't say that something "is not of the material world", simply because if something IS, it is material.

If "concrete", you mean, unchanging in relation to our current understanding, that that would be impossible, as the entire field of modern science is devoted to expanding our knowledge of the material world. So far we haven't found any Gods yet, so until then science will be inherently atheistic.
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#18134 - 01/14/09 12:51 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Diavolo]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
You must have heard my evocation, Diavolo...

This is "old news", and I'm thinking you don't have time to put it quite so eloquently as the last time I saw this argument, but by all means - if you don't mind...
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#18147 - 01/14/09 03:51 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: The Zebu]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
 Quote:
I'm sorry, but if something EXISTS, then it is material.


What about intelligence, love&hate, ethic,...

Are they material or they just do not exist ?

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#18159 - 01/14/09 07:46 AM Re: What makes you a Satanist [Re: Fabiano]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course they don't exist. They are labels to describe behavior, hormonal disturbances or certain traits.

D.

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