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#8902 - 05/22/08 05:44 PM Government Health Care
Phillip Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
I was just wondering how the Satanic Community at large feels about the idea of "Universal" or "Government" Health Care.

I personally feel it's gotta be one of the worst ideas ever, for several reasons.

Health care isn't a "fundamental human right", as Hillary put it. It's a commodity. If we give everybody the "right" to health care, we take away the doctor's right to say, "Fuck you, I'm on vacation", or "Fuck you, pay me." Medical care is a commodity, straight up. The more of it you buy, the longer you can expect to live, broadly speaking. If you're worried about dying, sell your car and go get a checkup.

Government funding for anything means that I (and you) have to pay for it. I don't wanna pay for health care for some fat-ass motherfucker that eats three cheeseburgers and smokes two packs of Camels every day. And if I'm not gonna pay for MY OWN fat ass, why the hell should I pay for anyone else's?

There's my rant. I'm really curious how the rest of this community feels about it, though. What do you think?
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8911 - 05/22/08 08:09 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Phillip]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Well we already have it in Australia and have for as long as I can remember. I would hate to have to go to the US system.

I'm pretty left wing when it comes down to it and I truly beleive that education and medical should be free. If that means I pay a little more in taxes then so be it. Although personally I'd rather see big business pay more in taxes, as it's a well known fact that white, middle class males pay the majority of our taxes and get the least in return.

I'm speaking in Australia, although I don't think it's that different in the US as far as middleclass males picking up alot of bills.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#8912 - 05/22/08 08:31 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: ZephyrGirl]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
I hate the idea. It costs me $15-25 to see a doctor or a specialist. That's less than some idiots spend downloading songs, videos, or ringtones. Give up your goddamned HDTV with 500 channels and get a health plan.

If it were to be controlled by the government, bet your last dollar they would place a million restrictions on it. Don't smoke, don't drink, anyone overweight pays more. Preexisting conditions cost more. Ride a dirt bike? Pay more. Work in a stressful or taxing environment, pay more. Personally, I like paying my $15, getting a checkup or having a situation attended to, getting the usual lecture about living a healthier lifestyle, and going on about my business. Whether I smoke 2 packs a day, or drink a 5th of vodka a day, or eat McDonalds 3 times a day, I still pay $25 to see my cardiologist or general practitioner for those chest pains or shortness in breath. Besides the notes he puts in my medical records, there is no other penalty or black balling me for living a less than a perfectly healthy lifestyle. Too bad so many Americans feel it is more important to buy the latest digital toy, buy an overpriced see me vehicle and put a $1000 stereo and dvd system in it, or spend $200 for a pair of jeans, rather than insure themselves with a medical policy. Then have the audacity to bitch about it.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#8913 - 05/22/08 08:32 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Phillip Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
Ok, but, wait...if I have to "pay a little more", how is it "free"? Aren't those mutually exclusive concepts?

What if I don't WANT any health care, and I'd rather spend my money on a 'Vette?

Personally, right now, I spend zero dollars on health care, literally. I haven't been to a doctor in like nine years.

I like it that way. Nine years ago, I was REALLY sick, and coughed up the bucks to get it handled. For me to pay even a little more would mean I'm getting ripped off. I'm pretty sure I would, in response, be at the doc's every three weeks, stocking up on good meds. I'm pretty sure I would take more out of the system than I put in, in retaliation for my being forced to put in at all, and I know there are many many people who would abuse the system WAAAAY worse than I would.
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8915 - 05/22/08 08:50 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Phillip]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Cool, I'm not going to get into a debate about it, because it's meaningless to me anyway. You are in the US I am in Australia. I like have public health and I'm glad that we have it.

I'm glad you have enjoyed good health for a while. Do you pay for health insurance, or accident insurance currently?

For the majority, paying for it only when they need it, ends up with them in HUGE DEBT because of unforseen accidents.

What little extra you may pay, is then a bit like insurance. It's for a rainy day. Or are you that niave that you think you'll never need any medical attention again in life?

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#8916 - 05/22/08 09:12 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Phillip Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
I spend zero dollars. No health insurance, no accident insurance.

I am absolutely positively certain I will never need medical attention. The worst that could happen is that I die, which is (probably) gonna happen eventually, whether I buy thirty or thirty million dollars worth of health care.

I'm equally certain I will WANT it at some point, however. (I think one of the biggest problems in society today is that people often think they NEED things they really only WANT, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.) I may even want it bad enough to pay for it. I broke my hand about three years ago, and thought about seeking professional help for it, but ended up just laying it on the concrete and having a buddy whack it back in place with a dictionary. It's fine now. Had it been other people's (tax) money, I'd have been soaking up x-rays, rehab, and painkillers like mad. Wasteful.

If I was really worried about it, I'd go find some health insurance somewhere.

Another point I'd like to bring up regarding taxpayer-funded health care is that I haven't paid taxes in about nine years either--yet another reason making fakepropht pay for my doctors visits would be bullshit.

(btw, Hi fake. You probably don't remember me, but I remember you. Long time no debate. How goes it?)
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8917 - 05/22/08 09:25 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Phillip]
Phillip Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
Hmm..you're right, Zeph. It's not supposed to be a debate. I'm supposed to be information gathering here. Sorry about that.

I'll try to make that the last of my ranting.
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8918 - 05/22/08 09:55 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Phillip]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Dude, I'm sorry, but needing to go to the doctor is alot different to wanting to.

Your example of your hand is cute and I've done that too, when I've broken my hand in a fight and couldn't be bothered going to the doctors about it (just to be told their is nothing that can do anyway), but if you had a serious leg break, with bone protruding from your leg, you would need to go to a hospital. Don't give me that, but I coudl let it repair naturally and be a cripple, because that's just a load of rhetoric. You and I both know that no one in their right mind would choose that second option.

It's actually a silly argument really. I don't beleive for one minute that you will choose death over going to the doctors. Sorry.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#8919 - 05/22/08 10:05 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Phillip]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
I am absolutely positively certain I will never need medical attention. The worst that could happen is that I die, which is (probably) gonna happen eventually, whether I buy thirty or thirty million dollars worth of health care.


I beg to differ. A few years back, I had what I felt was a minor ailment. At the insistance of my wife, I went to the doctor. I was right, it was minor. But what they found during the checkup wasn't. I had high blood pressure. The silent killer. There are no real warning signs. Things don't hurt or turn purple. Had I not gone in then and had it found, it's a real possibilty I could be dead now. Personally, I ain't finished living my life just yet.

That hand that you "fixed" may in the future cause you serious problems. So you saved us taxpayers $.05 each by whacking it with a book. However, 10 years from now, that hand may cause you to no longer be able to perform whatever it is that you do to earn a living.

Very uncanny, but I just received a phone call from a dear friend and business partner not more than one paragraph into this response. He is currently in the hospital. Had a mutant 3rd lung removed. Turns out the asthma, infection, and pnuemonia he had previously been told he suffered from was wrong. After emergency surgery, and nearly dying from not being able to breathe, he will be ok. He also doesn't have medical insurance. He is both scared from the experience and the mounting medical bills. He put off going to the doctor, figuring it was just his "asthma" acting up. Until he could no longer breathe and inhalers did nothing. It took a team of 20 to save him. He was given a breathing tube without being sedated for fear he wouldn't wake up. He also received a catheter and removal without sedation for the same reason. He told me it was the worst pain he had ever experienced. Mind you, this is one tough ass, born and raised in the bad streets of NY, bad mother.

I do vaguely remember you. Either by a different name or the same. I have to cut this short, since I have a few things to do to help my friend out.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#8927 - 05/23/08 08:03 AM Re: Government Health Care [Re: fakepropht]
Cody Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 72
Rely on doctors/hospital's and your insurance company, either way you paid for that care whether through taxes or debits to your paycheck. I rarely/never got to the doctor except in the case of dire emergencies, which I have never experienced yet. I prefer to heal my wounds in my own time, my "timeline" seems sufficient to me.
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#8933 - 05/23/08 10:27 AM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Cody]
Phillip Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
Same name. Wow, a third lung? Don't think I've ever heard that one before.

I agree, if I ever run into serious medical issues, I'm FUCKED. It's really just semantics, but I don't NEED to not be a cripple. I just WANT to be able to walk. I want it pretty badly, too. Bad enough to pay for it, even.

In the meantime, however, I'd sure like to just collect that nickel from each taxpayer and put it in my pocket. But people would never go for that, and I don't think it would be fair for the government to force them to.
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8961 - 05/24/08 03:18 AM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Phillip]
lillith Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 14
Loc: brisbane
I remember when I was young and indestructible! Then I went for one of those routine checkups and found I had some type of cancer that men dont get... Needless to say Australia rocks when it comes to health care. Things go a bit pear shaped (health wise) after your mid twenties. Imagine my horror when my Dr said the 30's are the worst, when everything from the last 10 years comes back to haunt you, I have never smoked, rarely drink, and would have been totally screwed if not for our health system.
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#8977 - 05/24/08 12:54 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: lillith]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Most people that I know do not have health care a bit more than a sterilized cow gives milk.I think it is unbelievable,and a sin against humanity brought to you by the Goverment itself.In other countries,the Quote upper civilized,like the canada and Austra.
You lucky S.O.B.'s Do not even question the quality or the simple term if you recieve health care.You take it for granted which is not your fault.Do not take offense.I envy you.
It's apart of the big plan of Genocide here in the land of the free to cut off the atleast a 3rd or more,I would say more
of us here in the states.
They want us to suffer
They want you to not last.
Trust me.
I know first hand,having to deal inside their rules of
Engagement.You think The Goverment wants you to flourish?
Horse shit.....
They want you to Fuc#ing starve,beg for docs and not make it
to work because gas will soon reach 666 a gallon.
6dollars66cents.
You think the big suits care about your health?
why when they are busy spending it on prisions and Gravesites.
If you do not agree that's fine,if you do say Uncle inbreeding Sam.......


"You are nothing to Me."
Tax dollar signs.
"Me,The Goverment."

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#8998 - 05/24/08 09:36 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Isaak w shipley]
lillith Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 14
Loc: brisbane
I can tell you now that most Australians that I know dont take it for granted (ie, the ones that work for a living) and dread the day Australia becomes a mini America with regards to health care. I certainly did not take it for granted, I counted myself lucky every step of the way. It might be paid for by my taxes, but it seems like one of the most sensible things to spend it on.
We live in a free world dude, if you dont like it, do something about it.

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#9006 - 05/25/08 12:35 AM Re: Government Health Care [Re: lillith]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
I think you misunderstood my point?
I Envy you.Quote
I am working on doing something about it,but in regards of respect,hell-fire-brimstone!The Americans are Jimmi Swaggering futher apart,instead of doing.Like you say they just talk.What are you doing about it dude?
Quote if I do not like it do something.I am working towards that goal.
I meant no harm to anybody,just simply the truth,which hurts!
Very badly,indeed.I feel in a race on the clock.
You soon will be also.
I know that you work and work hard to have good health care,but your Goverment has the one system in-place already for those who are lucky for years now but "The System will Fail,Crack and then crumble. Though the net is tighting,grip is slippping,America is totally out of touch with the health care luxury.Soon because of other less-lucky they are taking our shit here in the states,Muslim nations are ruling the pumps with over 8% of America owed to them now.
So If I should do something about it dude.
Then Help instead of critizing and pushing further from the
issue.....
I want a group thinking in one accord.
Do you think you could shed some of your light this way?

What do you think should be done?
Please Help!

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#9011 - 05/25/08 04:03 AM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Isaak w shipley]
lillith Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 14
Loc: brisbane
Did you have a point?
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#9198 - 05/29/08 02:21 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: lillith]
Phillip Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
I think his point was that he thinks the government should be responsible for his well-being, 'cause it's just too hard to do it himself.
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#9470 - 06/10/08 12:27 AM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Phillip]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
I am pondering the System.
I am pondering the Next President.
I am inside a Red State.
I am Very Blue Indeed.
Without Liberty and Freedom of the People To choose
We are Commi's.
Republicians Are Commi's.
Evil Dictators.
No Better than Castro or Sadaam.
No better than Hitler.
They Decide who gets Blood Product And Who Does not.
My BloodBrothers with "Royal Diease" Are Suffering.
No HealthCare.
No Comfort.
Only Favors of some leftwing Blood Distributors.
Who Can Actually Come Off the High Horse and Be human.
See Somebody in need of Assistance and Assist.
The Red would rather You Die.
I am not a person but a dieased Animal.
I Accept My Flesh and Blood Was Born Sick.
Damn them too Hell for Playing God.
Acting Like I did this to Myself.
It was a Gene Mutation.
Somebody Said that I choose this path.
I was brought Back to Earth and chose to Have This Problem.
They Said it Has shown me The deep darkside of Humanity.
They said the One who suffers most Loves Greatest.
All Bull to Shit.
I guess they figured it would cheer me up.
For a split second there I forgot about the world.
I forgot About the HealthCare Issue My people Are Struggling with.
My Mother.
My family inside Tenn.
My BlooodNationBloodBrothers and Sisters.
I will not Vote.
The Machine Counts.
I do-not.
I am a BioHazard Waiting to happen.
I am not Sorry or Whining.
I am Letting My Truth Out.
I Hate Our Communist Goverment.
Until They Help the People.
I will Continue.
I am a Patroit.
I am in these Feilds Everyday of Nobody.
Everybody walks around,Let's A Elderly Man Get hit By
A Meth-Head-Driver,Sees Him laying out in the street and does nothing.
They do not speak.
They do not even loose a text.
Fu3k Those kind!
I am discusted by our Generations Coming up with no Respect!
It makes me Look like I am the Same way.
Because my Generation and under is an Embarasing bunch of SocialClass.
I only hang With People Born In 50's and 60's And 70's.
Some In there Early 20's I speak to because they Show Respect.
Most have not a clue.
I watch the News Cover these Political Debates and the funny thing is They are not debates only DirtFest Slinging.
They Talk about Each others Problems.
Not HealthCare or America's Real Problems.
The Weaking Dollar.
My East Tenn Company Had the nerve to tell me
The Economy is Strong.
Go Spend!
They Want you to spend to help the Dollar.
They Know just as well That The Economic and HealthCare Is Falling to Peices.
I Seen Ed Mackman,In Forcloser.
I Seen That HolyWood is Suffering just as much.
I Am sick of these Liars!
I pity anyone Who Believes a Word they Say.
The ColdHard Fact is Our Past Fathers in office and Oil.
Along with Baptist and Hypocrites.
Who were here way before me Left this world in Global Peril.
GlobalWarming Is a Fact!
They Have Created Hell for us now they get to die.
While My Generation Is Stuck With this Hell they Created for me and others Children,Children.
I do not Have Kids.
I am Glad.
My Sperm Is ColdPop.
Clumps of Needles.
I do not Drive anymore.
I pay to Ride.
Better known by today's Standard as a Slugger.
I feel Sorry for anyone who has kids.
You must tell the truth to your family that Granddad and GreatGrandmother Burned the world to hell with Toxic Coal and Crude.
They tore the Luxury's out from under us
Because of Greed!
Instead of Helping OneAnother.
They Killed Each other and There Grandkids Futures.
I know that Guns,Money,Drugs,and Power Is the AmericanWay.
I do not Understand However Why They Chose to ignore Science and
Listen to These Astronomers.
We Have Been Building to this Moment Ever Since We Raped Indians
Of this Land.
Our Dieases and Guns Have Killed Ourselves.
Our Money and Greed Has Killed Our Babies.
Our lack of Understanding Has Wiped out Indians and Ancientways
Of Living,Loving,Fu3king and Using our time To Celebrate life
inside this Beautiful World.
I must Say.
We Have Burned Ourselves!


Hail to MotherNatures
Wrath!

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#9660 - 06/17/08 11:18 AM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Phillip Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
Dude, helping "the people" is NOT the government's responsibility. You are responsible for yourself. If you can't feed yourself, die. If you can't afford a doctor, or you choose NOT to afford a doctor, die. It really and truly doesn't make a shit to me whether you live or not, so why should I have to pay money to the government so they can keep you alive?

Responsibility to the responsible, yo.
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#9807 - 06/26/08 10:54 AM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Cody Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 72
When mom and dad patted you on the head and gave you a bandage for your "ouchies" you felt really good, then they asked you to cut the grass. I don't know but I have always been of the mind that self sufficiency is a lost art and it is seemingly lost in the art of contrived dependency and modern living. A looming doom awaits reserved for those who have truly given themselves over to the strange trust afforded to the powers that be because they told you they were. A power that is that will wipe your smelly bottom and nail a fresh diaper to your hip bones because you expended credits for that service. LOL!
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#10439 - 08/02/08 03:43 AM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Cody]
Meemperor Offline
lurker


Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 4
Well, lets look at it this way. Private insurance companies are out to make money. That is their goal, the reason for their existence, yet you put your life in the hands of a company who relies on you paying money and not being sick.

Using self sufficiency in this case is laughable. Most people, especially Americans, can barely figure out how to pay their mortgage and get to work, let alone save tens of thousands of dollars for medical bills. Let alone hundreds of thousands for certain operations.

Saying healthcare is not need, or is not an essential service is like saying the police, military and fire department are not needed. Put out your own fires, enforce your own laws and defend your own home against a foreign invader. It doesn't work like that and hasn't in all of human history.

Throughout our history groups of people have banded together to take care of one another, war with apposing sides etc.. etc.. and as a citizen on a certain nation it is your duty to help your brother. Is that communist ? No(I'll get into that a little more in a min)

Simple economics proves that the lifespan of normal people would drop dramatically if there was no Medicare in the US, people simply cannot afford what it costs to live in some cases. In America especially you get reemed with high prices for drugs and an odd and inefficient system.

Canada has universal healthcare. It kind of sucks, but I know at anytime I can walk into a hospital or doctor or walk in clinic with my health card and be treated for my ailments. Can I get a pair of glasses for free ? No. Can I visit the dentist for free ? No. This doesn't mention the long wait times, and ridiculous waiting period for non-life threaten surgery.

I purpose something like is happening in the western province of Alberta here in Canada. Universal healthcare for all, but allowing private clinics to also operate. This means that everyone is cared for, but those who can truly afford to bypass the waiting lines etc.. etc.. can and will. It also takes stress off the government system if those willing to pay for faster service are able to.

That's just Canada though, Britain, France.. well all of Europe have good healthcare systems where even as a visitor you can be treated for free. A surprisingly AMAZING system is in CUBA. OH yes the commies figured something out. I'm not going to get into the availability of medicine, the non-existent hospital wait times etc... I'd like to focus on, the fact that university education in Cuba is FREE which means if you have the intelligence and desire to become and doctor you can, which means there are more doctors, because they are held in high regard even in commie Cuba. It's funny that the Communist cigar smoking Cubans have a longer life expectancy and higher literacy rate then the all powerful America.


Universal healthcare doesn't mean the demise of the free market and America turning into a socialist state. It means that the government is actually taking care of it's people and the country becomes healthier, happier and more productive. Which means there are more jobs, more opportunities, less violence and a stronger nation all together.


PS.

I haven't been to a doctor for the past 13 years (I was 8 and had a throat infection) I did however visit the hospital the other week because a rather large piece of metal was lodged in my eye after doing some work to my car, I went in got it removed and went home. No forms to fill out(well they were filled out for me by some lady), no insurance to pay, no bill. That visit was my second time being admitted into a Hospital, the first time was when I came out of the womb. I'm happy to pay the small amount of tax I pay to receive my healthcare and for my family to receive it as well. (I work for myself, so I'm taxed very lightly... if at all)


Sorry, that was poorly written and I kind of wandered all of the place, but ...

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#10684 - 08/15/08 01:50 AM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Jaguar Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 24
Loc: OR, Multnomah
We should consider the enscense of humanism and what it means to be a humanists while calling ourselves "Lavey Satanists." We are humanists! That means that we have an investment in the well being of humanity. Being selfish is only applied when a serious threat hits home. For example: You lost your good paying job with payments on home and car. You try to find the same paying job but all the jobs are pushed down with low pay because our CORP USA and lobbyists feeding from greed. The enemy is clear. We are in the political section.

If you are as a god, then you must care for your family, community and your beautiful earth that provides all of us with such richness and beauty. If you cannot do this, you will became a cancer to society and mother nature. Balance is vital. We must care for each other but be able to destroy anyone or thing, who does not help the well being of ourselves, our family, our community and our earth. We have a democracy. If we insure that our Democracy is functioning, we will not have a dictators.
The Germans are fond of us (not current administration in power) as a people but they see the signs of what they once survived after WWII. Lets enjoy the fruits of history from the old worlds that have survived so long and build our beautiful country from those wise old souls.

Taxes and national health care is no different then the fire department, libaries, water systems and roads. If we lost the roads, we would have a job loss (most of us). Focus on the big picture. If the whole of society is able to engage the pursuit of happiness, then the rich will get richer and all latter class's will grow stronger as well.

The USA Corporations have worked hard to screw the lower class, working class and the middle class. They will not stop until they cannot make anymore money off of us, just as China is working full force doing also. I could be wrong but I believe most Lavey Satanists engage because they have fought fang an claw to rise to a better life. The following link is of interest regarding Germany and USA relations in politics. Take note of the date this short paper was written. I also recommend watching "The 11th hour."

http://www.newswithviews.com/history/history4.htm

Keep in-mind when I was youthful I too was angery and very bitter. hmmm....Maybe it would be wise to have a forum section for people at the age of 20's or under. If a forum section for this existed, then youthful Satanists could rant about whatever without getting slammed by older Satanists. The admins could respond as the elder Satanists to keep things on track. Just a thought.
_________________________
Learn From the Past,
Provide for the future,
Live in the present.

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#10685 - 08/15/08 06:14 AM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Jaguar]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
We are humanists! That means that we have an investment in the well being of humanity.

I personally only have an investment in my self and those i care about.

If you are as a god, then you must care for your family, community and your beautiful earth that provides all of us with such richness and beauty.

i never said i was a caring ,benevolent, dogooder god:)

If you cannot do this, you will became a cancer to society and mother nature.

Oh i could if i wanted to, but i choose not to:)
their you go again being an altruist for the greater good ect ect.. If this is the case then i am ecstatic to choose to be a cancer to society and mother nature. I mean who cares? i do everything for my self because when it all boils down to it, when i die so does the world.

How could this world exist with out me?. When i close my eyes the world goes black, when i am wounded it is only me that feels pain..baby i am the world.
_________________________
http://www.sintheticgraphics.com

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#10689 - 08/15/08 07:38 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Jaguar]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Jaguar
We should consider the enscense of humanism and what it means to be a humanists while calling ourselves "Lavey Satanists." We are humanists! That means that we have an investment in the well being of humanity.

This is one difference between humanist and Satanist…

 Originally Posted By: Jaguar
Being selfish is only applied when a serious threat hits home. For example: You lost your good paying job with payments on home and car. You try to find the same paying job but all the jobs are pushed down with low pay because our CORP USA and lobbyists feeding from greed. The enemy is clear.

So corporate America is a humanist’s enemy or just yours? When this happens to you what form of selfishness will you employ? What will be your goal?

 Originally Posted By: Jaguar
If you are as a god, then you must care for your family, community and your beautiful earth that provides all of us with such richness and beauty. If you cannot do this, you will became a cancer to society and mother nature. Balance is vital.

While I do like Rob’s answers I must ask what god are you using for your model here? Would it be the Christian one or some other, perhaps Buddha? Also if corporate America is the enemy wouldn’t society be as similar an enemy?

 Originally Posted By: Jaguar
Lets enjoy the fruits of history from the old worlds that have survived so long and build our beautiful country from those wise old souls.

Old world societies like the Aztecs, Greeks, and Romans? All thriving communities hmm…

 Originally Posted By: Jaguar
Focus on the big picture. If the whole of society is able to engage the pursuit of happiness, then the rich will get richer and all latter class's will grow stronger as well.

Too many chiefs not enough Indians…

 Originally Posted By: Jaguar
The USA Corporations have worked hard to screw the lower class, working class and the middle class. They will not stop until they cannot make anymore money off of us, just as China is working full force doing also.

Since you know your enemy what have you done or what are you doing to destroy them? Did anything in this post have anything to do with health care?

 Originally Posted By: Jaguar
Keep in-mind when I was youthful I too was angery and very bitter. hmmm....Maybe it would be wise to have a forum section for people at the age of 20's or under. If a forum section for this existed, then youthful Satanists could rant about whatever without getting slammed by older Satanists.

Who slams whom? Seriously as a gamer you should understand that older people tend to slam younger people less than the younger people trying to pown the older…

There is a forum for young or new Satanists it is called Satanism 101… Besides that there is a thread just for forum recommendations… ;\)

~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#10691 - 08/15/08 09:10 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Jaguar]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Wow. This thread is almost three pages and I have not chimed in yet.

 Quote:
We should consider the enscense of humanism and what it means to be a humanists while calling ourselves "Lavey Satanists." We are humanists! That means that we have an investment in the well being of humanity. Being selfish is only applied when a serious threat hits home.


WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Humanism is a white light RHP philosophy and it stands opposed to Satanism. Most true Xtians are humanists. Secular Humanism is the same RHP nonsense without all that pesky make believe religion.

The Satanist is a follower of the Left Hand Path and only concerns himself with those worthy of concern.

As this relates to health care...

In the US, I look out at other large govt welfare programs like public assistance ('welfare'), social security, unemployment insurance, and public education, and I am left with little confidence in govt's ability run the health care system.

In any event, the concept of public 'health care' is a strange. Why is my responsibility to pay for someone else's life? I take pretty good care of my self. Why should I have pay extra for other people's bad habits? Where is the health in 'health care?'

Most people in this country as sick due to a lifetime of poor diet and no exercise. Asking your health insurance company for a heart transplant is like asking your auto insurance company for a new engine because you never changed the oil.

Responsibility to the responsible. What responsibility do people have for their own health?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#10692 - 08/15/08 09:23 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Jaguar]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Oh, and I forgot one thing.

 Quote:
The Germans are fond of us (not current administration in power) as a people but they see the signs of what they once survived after WWII. Lets enjoy the fruits of history from the old worlds that have survived so long and build our beautiful country from those wise old souls.


Fuck Europe! America is made up of millions of people who left Europe for good reason. The 'old world' gave us WWI and WWII. It took 'backward ass' America to save the Western World - TWICE!

Give the welfare states Europe another 10-20 years and get back to me. The fundamental economics of Europe are flawed. The negative population growth, high taxes, and large Boomer population mean that in just a few years there will not be enough working people to pay for all of the old pensioners bearing down on the welfare system.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#10716 - 08/16/08 06:51 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: ta2zz]
Jaguar Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 24
Loc: OR, Multnomah
 Quote:
While I do like Rob’s answers I must ask what god are you using for your model here? Would it be the Christian one or some other, perhaps Buddha? Also if corporate America is the enemy wouldn’t society be as similar an enemy?


1. My god is myself! and I thought I was talking to people who viewed themselves the same! Not sure now. I suppose that which makes me live would be the god your speaking of at it provides me with this life and desire and pain, nothing more.

2.Would society be the enemy? Yes! But society feeds from manipulation and control as sheep do. I have little power to direct massive numbers of sheep, I seek truth and wish to care for my world as the world which gave me life and provided taste and desire as well as pain and suffering. Whatever you want to call that god, that is the god I value. So you can ignore society but I chose not to. Society is a field of possiblities. We may just differ. Society in the end, controls a vast part of our life. Please share your angle on this.

I enjoy the feed back. No need to be so defensive with me. I think.


Edited by Jaguar (08/16/08 07:23 PM)
_________________________
Learn From the Past,
Provide for the future,
Live in the present.

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#10717 - 08/16/08 07:08 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Fist]
Jaguar Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 24
Loc: OR, Multnomah
 Quote:
Fuck Europe! America is made up of millions of people who left Europe for good reason. The 'old world' gave us WWI and WWII. It took 'backward ass' America to save the Western World - TWICE!

Give the welfare states Europe another 10-20 years and get back to me. The fundamental economics of Europe are flawed. The negative population growth, high taxes, and large Boomer population mean that in just a few years there will not be enough working people to pay for all of the old pensioners bearing down on the welfare system.


I respect what you shared but I disagree. If our only concern was with the fantasy world we live in in our own lives and the world of politics ended at our countries waters edge, I would agree with you. Since it doesn't, I hold strong hate towards anything that would place independant selfishness before the well being of my two daughters and anyone who has families, as they hold a life as adults in the world we share. Hence, why I am trying to provide for the future...trying. As a Satanist you should respect this even if you disagree with my aspect. Or do you have a world for them where we don't pay taxes and they will be cared for. Please show me this world! Is your goal in life to become a rock star something or rather? or do you except that this is the world which we live and share. We have to share this world. Place your borders carefully before spreading hate towards those who may end up helping you. Try something new! Grow!


Edited by Jaguar (08/16/08 07:18 PM)
_________________________
Learn From the Past,
Provide for the future,
Live in the present.

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#10721 - 08/16/08 11:08 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Jaguar]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Man has existed on earth for somewhere between 250 - 500 thousand years. Whatever did we do before taxes and govt programs?

So today, I was sitting a diner with my two boys at a local classic car show. This was an old school diner that still had a glass enclosed smoking section. In the smoking section was a 500lb+ fat fuck stuffing his face. I fully reject the notion that I have any responsibility for his health. If he dropped on the floor right there with a heart attack I wouldn't lift a finger to help him. One less worthless POS in the world.

Again, there is no health in any health care program. All govt health care schemes only treat disease. They do not encourage good health in the first place.

Tell you what, here is an idea for a health care program:

The govt (in other words, me - the taxpayer) will pay for all of your health care needs. For your part, you must engage in 1 hour of strenuous exercise 5 days a week, you must not smoke, and I will tell you what kind of food you can eat. Under my program, refined sugar and high fructose corn syrup would have the same legal status of heroin. Deal?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#10725 - 08/17/08 10:13 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Fist]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
No deal. I would die quicker under your health plan. What did we do before government programs? How about die by the age of 50 if not sooner.

So I don't crap all over this thread, send me a pm with the location of this diner and car show. I cover car shows for a magazine, and I am always on the hunt for authentic diners.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#10732 - 08/18/08 01:04 PM Re: Government Health Care [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Cody Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 72
I defer to the Juche system because I feel that underneath it all and truly looking at the true soft underbelly of human existence that it offers to make the only one true saviour.

Edited by Cody (08/18/08 01:05 PM)
Edit Reason: Forgot an A

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