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#27922 - 08/04/09 11:07 PM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: ceruleansteel]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 74
Loc: Denver, CO USA
Well, M. Aquino became a Lieutenant Colonel in the U.S. Army while being openly Satanic. At least he was the one of the only ones brave enough to stick to his beliefs when he knew what price he would have to pay.
Corporate heads? Who knows...I'm just new here. \:\)


Edited by Azathoth68 (08/04/09 11:48 PM)

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#27923 - 08/04/09 11:34 PM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: Azathoth68]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Colonel Aquino was ONE person... I was another. I was openly a member of the Church of Satan throughout my military career and openly worked toward getting my status as a Satanist officially recognized. Eventually, my official military records were corrected to show my religious preference as Church of Satan, as do my official dog tags.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#27928 - 08/05/09 06:46 AM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: Jake999]
god.over.djinn Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 75
Loc: Melbourne
Hi Jake,

I am just curious, as this may have some relevance to my own situation: how early in your military career did you make your Satanic affiliations known?

G.O.D.
_________________________
SATAN, a recursive acronym invented by GOD: "SATAN: Advocating The Adversarial Nihilist"

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#27932 - 08/05/09 09:39 AM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: god.over.djinn]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
I joined the military in 1969. I was openly a Satanist by late 1971. It took until about 1985 for them to finally enter Church of Satan in my religious preferences and deliver my dog tags with the Church of Satan designations. The wheels of change in the military seldom move swiftly.

What I think one of the things that worked in my favor was the fact that I was on the combat mobility team. Every time we did an exercise (which was frequently), you had to go through a long processing line and they checked your military records...

"blood type: A+ (CHECK),
marital status: married (CHECK),
religious preference: other (DISCREPANCY) Church of Satan. The records are wrong? Yes. Do you wish to amend? Yes. Change "other" to Church of Satan? Yes. Sorry Sarge, there's no code for Church of Satan. Make one. Submit a change. I can't do that. Find someone who can."

So, when someone finally got tired of taking write ups that never got resolved, change occurred. That didn't mean it was automatically accepted. From that point on when I went through the processing line, the chaplain would usually verify my religious preference, get a smirk on his face and ask, "Well, do you want to change your religion?" My response was always the same. "No sir. Do you want to change yours?"
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#27933 - 08/05/09 01:25 PM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
In my case I was completely open about it from the moment I joined the Church of Satan in 1969. And on the whole the Army enjoyed it.

Nor did it hurt my career; in 1986 I was the sole USAR officer in the nation selected for the general-officer-anointing Industrial College of the Armed Forces. Unfortunately at the same time the "Satanic Panic" was sweeping the country, and Lilith & I were conspicuously targeted by it. Came through it OK and I continued in good standing (and above-TS security clearance) until I retired in 1994. But Senator Jesse Helms made it his business to see that there would be no eagles, much less stars, for a Devil-worshipper. That's "Beltway politics".

Where the Armed Forces were & are concerned, much credit for not just official toleration of Satanism but of all non-mainstream religions is owed to Dr. J. Gordon Melton.

In 1978 the U.S Department of the Army contracted Melton's Institute for the Study of American Religion (ISAR) to produce a book entitled DA Pamphlet 165-13: Religious Requirements and Practices of Certain Selected Groups - A Handbook for Chaplains. In 1992 ISAR revised and updated the book, going into considerable detail about a great many belief systems, including Satanism (specifically the Temple of Set & Church of Satan), which thereby put commanders on formal notice that such matters were not their concern. #165-13 is no longer available for direct download from the DA Chaplain's website, but here's an extract of the sections specifically pertaining to Satanism which I copied for Setians awhile ago.

This DA Pamphlet next resulted in a series of Department of Defense Directives 1300.17 standardizing and enforcing it for all the Armed Services. Here's the most current update. If you're in the military, or are thinking about it, print this puppy out and keep it with your personal papers. You might find it handy sometime.

P.S. to Californians: This state has an extremely strong anti-discrimination law - the Unruh Act §51 - which prohibits any company doing business in this state from discriminating against you on religious grounds. Somewhat difficult to enforce because businesses have learned to be very careful about what they commit to print/record, but useful to know about nevertheless.

_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#27935 - 08/05/09 03:46 PM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
But Senator Jesse Helms made it his business to see that there would be no eagles, much less stars, for a Devil-worshipper. That's "Beltway politics".


Do you feel that your service merited eagles or stars? Because essentially that's what I'm talking about. I suppose it may be geographic, also. Where I live, the mere suggestion of Satanism causes so much panic that I have actually found myself before a Judge defendning my ownership of certain books. Thus it is much better for me that I simply not have to deal with questions or whatnot. I'm not on a mission to bring Satanism to the masses (as a matter of fact, the very idea disgusts me), I'm on a mission to accomplish all my goals and live the way I want to live. It's a small and worthwhile trade-off, as far as I'm concerned.

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#27966 - 08/05/09 11:31 PM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: ceruleansteel]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
Do you feel that your service merited eagles or stars?

Of course.

 Quote:
Where I live, the mere suggestion of Satanism causes so much panic that I have actually found myself before a Judge defendning my ownership of certain books.

That's strange, since Arkansas sent us a President who was ... Well, maybe I'm confusing Bill with Ron or George ...
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#27991 - 08/06/09 02:36 PM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
[quote=ceruleansteel]Do you feel that your service merited eagles or stars?

Of course.

 Quote:
Where I live, the mere suggestion of Satanism causes so much panic that I have actually found myself before a Judge defendning my ownership of certain books.


I'd have been extremely disappointed if Dr. Aquino or any other military man/woman didn't think they deserved their rank, or wasn't prepared to take it to the next level. That said, he, I and every other military member will definitely be able to spot those who DIDN'T.

While were were an isolate society within society as military members, you have to remember that the military is at is core subject to that society and its whims, even though certain members might not fit the mold that they would have for us 100%. And in the 60's and early 70's, while we might find acceptance amongst our peers, even as Satanists, there was a long, long way up that chain of command. Certainly, Dr. Aquino's climb was less than mine, but we were on the same ladder, and there were those who had vested interests in seeing anyone who didn't fit their personal hallucinations to fail.

Jesse Helms was one of them. While I am no fan of Wikipedia, I can tell you that the Senator from North Carolina was "Helms was also a 'master obstructionist', and a self-described 'redneck' who relished his nickname, 'Senator No'. He opposed, at various times, civil rights, feminism, gay rights, affirmative action, tax increases, abortion, foreign aid, communism, and government support for modern art with nudity." I'm sometimes conservative in my views, as most of you know... to Jesse Helms, I would be the Antichrist Hippie. Dr. Aquino, perhaps somewhere between Satan himself and a black hole on a direct line to a Bible factory. In short, he wouldn't like us.

Some notable Jesse Helms quotes... http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/helms.html

Ceruleansteel: I know where you're coming from, and you do what you gotta do to make sure your kids stay where they belong, and you keep your sense of personal safety inviolate, but had it been me, I would have been demanding to know why I SHOULDN'T own damn near any book that I wished to own and seek whatever knowledge I wished to seek. But again, you know I love the hell outta you, and I understand what you were going through... you played it as you had to.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#27993 - 08/06/09 03:28 PM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Some notable Jesse Helms quotes...

In September 1985 Helms had quietly introduced an amendment into the 1986 Congressional budget bill:

 Originally Posted By: Amendment #705
No funds appropriated under this act shall be used to grant, maintain, or allow tax exemption to any cult, organization, or other group that has as a purpose or that has any interest in the promoting of satanism or witchcraft: provided that for purposes of this section, “satanism” is defined as the worship of Satan or the powers of evil and “witchcraft” is defined as the use of powers derived from evil spirits, the use of sorcery, or the use of supernatural powers with malicious intent.

The effect of this legislation, if passed, would have been to strip federal, and hence state, tax-exempt status as a religion from religious institutions such as the Temple of Set and various neopagan/witchcraft groups. It was this status which formalized, where the U.S. government was concerned, a particular religion’s right to be recognized as such in terms of First and Fourteenth Amendment Constitutional protections. Helms wasn’t interested in whether donations were tax-deductible; he wanted Satanism and witchcraft outlawed.

Despite a major Helms-sponsored letter-writing campaign in support of #705, it was stripped out of the budget bill in committee, other legislators evidently feeling that it was too blatantly unConstitutional on its face.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#28002 - 08/06/09 04:47 PM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Not to mention the inherent absurdity of such a bill, it would also spark a bunch of squabbling about what defines "worship", or what constitutes "evil"-- all of these terms, of course, have no place in any US legislation.

Technically, a Muslim could use this law to deprive the Catholic Church of federal funding, since he might interpret the Mass as a form of polytheistic sorcery.

I'm glad the western world is largely rid of "witch laws" and other such absurd relics of the dark ages.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#28013 - 08/06/09 08:05 PM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: The Zebu]
jesusbeater Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Ireland
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu

I'm glad the western world is largely rid of "witch laws" and other such absurd relics of the dark ages.


You should come to Ireland....a Blasphemy Law was introduced this year amist all the Church Child Abuse Scandals.Basiclly , to show how stupid and fucking pig ignorant the government is, any one who might make a claim of abuse against a religious order or suggest anything that the order finds any way offensive, could in turn be arrested and imprisoned or fined.Now this obviously came in because the Irish government has its cock stuck in the church's ass, and has made an agreement to pay about 80 percent of the compensation to the victims of abuse(which is in the hundred millions/this is alot of governmental spending in Ireland as its a fucking tiny shit hole;they usually only spend 100 quid on national health care).Of course the law is a fucking joke as it means that as all religions fundamentally disagree with each other at some level or another every one is at risk of breaking the blasphemy law by mearly expressing their opinions or beliefs.I.e. I could bring a case against the church as they offend me and they could bring a case against me for being so fab. A rabid fear has swept across the media and rumours of Muslim extremist waiting to exploit the dumbass law and in turn cause the destruction of eire have widely been reported in my head.
Religious freedom is a pipe dream, even when cthulhu comes back I'm fairly sure that he/she will ban worship of the flying spaghetti monster.
_________________________
crabpeople...crabpeople

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#28014 - 08/06/09 08:09 PM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: The Zebu]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Just a general reply concerning the title of this thread.

People might consider me anti-social because I have a genuine dislike for most people. However I wouldn't consider myself anti-social, rather, selectively social.

I have a few good friends who I can count on when I really need them and who can count on me when they really need me. There are people that I consider aquaintances and will talk to them on occasion when at a bar or party, but I usually stick to a small tight knit group.

I don't feel the need to go out of my way and make friends with everyone I meet. People are social animals, to be sure, and some people feel the need to surround themselves with alot of other people for some strange reason. I am not one those of the people. I often find that the number of people you depend on is in direct proportion to the number of people who can, and often times will, let you down.

Most people are stupid and are only good for my own personal amusement. It doesn't take long, however, for that amusement to turn into annoyance. When I don't like someone I have no problem telling them that is the case. People often mistake my bluntness for me being a dick. Not that it bothers me that some people might think that I am dick; that is just more incentive for them to leave me alone.

People have to earn my respect and friendship, it takes even less work to earn my contempt. I am damn good friend and also one hell of an adversary.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#28023 - 08/06/09 11:14 PM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: jesusbeater]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
You should come to Ireland....a Blasphemy Law was introduced this year amist all the Church Child Abuse Scandals.


I remember reading an article about that; and how Dawkins threw a fit (although not without just cause) and encouraged people to defy the measure.

 Quote:
A rabid fear has swept across the media and rumours of Muslim extremist waiting to exploit the dumbass law and in turn cause the destruction of eire have widely been reported in my head.


I'm not surprised. Muslim fundamentalists have actually been the STRONGEST supporters of Blasphemy Laws throughout Europe, hoping to give their backwater book-worshiping cult a special exemption from rational criticism. I don't see hordes of Muslims using it to burn Catholic Ireland down to the ground, but I strongly suspect that once people actually start trying to rigorously enforce the law, the volume of complaints and sheer uselessness of it all will force the bill's eradication.

That said, such a widespread fear could shock some sense into the public, and make them realize that Catholicism is not the only religion in the world, and that even by passing a blasphemy law you are only hurting your own religion, by depriving yourself of the ability to speak out against others.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#28030 - 08/07/09 01:13 AM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: The Zebu]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
To Jake and Michael:

Thank you for not interpreting my question as sarcastic (I noticed that could happen after I posted it)....my point was that although you were "technically accepted", basically it seems to me that what you say indicates that you could have gone farther than you did in your military careers had your leanings remained...personal. So although it didn't blatantly damage your climb up that ladder, it did put some of the higher rungs out of reach for you.

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#28044 - 08/07/09 05:31 AM Re: Satanists anti social? [Re: ceruleansteel]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
So although it didn't blatantly damage your climb up that ladder, it did put some of the higher rungs out of reach for you.

I was aware of that when I made my decision to join the Church of Satan in 1969, and I'm sure Jake was too.

The U.S. military is and always has been a JudæoChristian institution. Consider the existence of the Corps of Chaplains, post/base chapels, and the officer status of chaplains. All flagrantly unConstitutional under the separation of church & state doctrine, but firmly enshrined nevertheless. And as the chaplain's primary duty is to assist in fulfillment of his assigned unit's mission, it is quite clear that religious principles inconsistent with that are to be swept under the rug, or creatively retwisted to make them appear consistent. Religion in the military is expected to be a de facto PSYOP device to motivate soldiers to carry out their orders, and to remove any moral qualms that might interfere with those orders.

Realizing this from the outset, I just ignored the CoC, and first as a Satanist and then a Setian simply declined any invitations to involve either institution with that operation. More challenging was how to reconcile a genuine personal religious morality - which both Satanism and Setian initiation incorporate - with assignments and missions requiring complete focus on accomplishment. Basically one can approach this in one of two ways:

(1) Adopt a "social contract" attitude when executing a mission: set personal morality aside in favor of government morality.

(2) Attempt to redefine and/or obtain higher redefinition of missions to enable a more moral execution.

Neither is a perfect solution; it becomes a question of what John Fowles proposed as the Aristos: "the best possible and practical course of action under the circumstances".

This is of course a "predicament of Satanism" no matter what one's profession or surroundings. Once you accept full responsibility for your own integrity and morality, you have no comic-book religion to give you excuses for anything any longer. Perhaps you approached Satanism thinking it was a ticket to excuse everything you might want to think, say, or do. Quite a surprise to many Satanists to discover that exactly the opposite is true; you can never again be a hypocrite.

Two years before I joined the Church I was National Commander of the Eagle Scout Association of the Boy Scouts of America. You don't get more Jimmie Dodd than that. Anton complained that my joining meant the Church was now in danger of getting a good name! But the kicker was that people used to ask me, "How could you go from being an Eagle Scout to a Satanist?!" To which I would always answer, "Yes, it was tough all right - because Satanism has a much more demanding moral standard."
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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