#9020 - 05/25/08 04:15 PM
The Art Of Manliness
|
Equilibrio
stranger
Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 48
Loc: Missouri
|
Since most things testosterone driven have been unceremoniously vilified by the current "touchy-feely" effeminization of western culture, I have put this in the COUNTERCULTURE forum. Mods may feel free to move it to GENERAL CONVERSATION, should the conversation warrant it.
Here is a website dubbed THE ART OF MANLINESS. It is a pleasant haven for those of us who enjoy reveling in our birthrights as the "unfair" sex. Granted, some of the articles can be a LITTLE bit on the wanky side, but there is a LOT to learn here...Especially for the younger generation of the vaginally-challenged.
I highly recommend subscribing to the e-mail list. They send stuff every couple of days, but the advice is generally sage and practical, if nothing else. I'm assuming that most of you manly bastards on this forum are well endowed with bullshit detection, so you can adequately separate the wheat from the chaff.
I would be interested in what the ladies on this forum think about this site as well.
Man up!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#9023 - 05/25/08 05:15 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Equilibrio]
|
silverray
stranger
Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 9
|
I learned a lot about the proper treatment of the flag as well as how to fold it from the article "How To Fly Old Glory With Respect".
I haven't looked at the rest of the site, though.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#12222 - 10/05/08 08:47 AM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: William]
|
Fabiano
member
Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
|
William,
I can understand French, as it's my mother tongue. However, it's hard for me to read your blog
Le meaninglessness final des actions de l'homme ne devrait pas lui causer le désespoir. Il devrait être plus déterminé à démontrer comment sien fort-mettra en boîte créent des buts, des valeurs, et la signification pour se .
Looks like Google translated this from English. I confirm you that this is hardly understandable even for a French native speaker!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#12240 - 10/05/08 06:43 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: barrytheblade]
|
Fabiano
member
Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
|
Yes probably true. But I think the problem is also that many girls are not yet turned into ladies... I often goes out with some of my collegues (who're also friends). They're 10 year younger than me and sometimes they behave more as students in "American Pie" than as "gentlmens". And the girls just follow and add more on top of it.
It's maybe hard nowadays to find true gentlemens, but what about true laydies ?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#22630 - 03/27/09 11:32 AM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Equilibrio]
|
97and107
member
Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 196
Loc: Olympia, WA. USA
|
[i]
I would be interested in what the ladies on this forum think about this site as well.
Man up!
Part of healing the sex divide is acknowledging that we all need help and we both deserve equal respect and happiness.
I liked the site...that's not to say I dig a hat or a beard, but overall it's a respectful site that gets my vote.
I don't like the manipulative type - I run into this style of man at work almost everyday - you know the kind that uses "seduction" techs from that retard who wears the top hat? I can smell them a mile away.
I'm monogamous and a total femme so pretty much impossible to seduce unless you're a knight in shining armor (or a dragon)
either or.
I'm a sucker for guys who are naive, focused on performing justice and like to impress girls by doing fancy things. And they have a sincere approach to life in general, honest and know how to fight but also how to be extremely tender when it needs to be done.
The biggest turn off to me is hurting my feelings after I open up my cold-bitch armor!
I also feel like a man, much of the time...when I am in a certain capacity I can certainly "man up" when I need to...I think everybody has two haploids within us so we are both male and female at center.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#22633 - 03/27/09 12:47 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: 97and107]
|
Jake999
senior member
Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2174
|
I don't like the manipulative type - I run into this style of man at work almost everyday - you know the kind that uses "seduction" techs from that retard who wears the top hat? I can smell them a mile away.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
Don't always assume the hat makes a man a retard, any more than it would make a woman from Tennessee necessarily redneck trailer trash. Just kidding of course... I saw the site.
Manliness comes with practice and it comes with maturity. Any clod can talk the talk, but walking the walk is something you have to observe over a lineal space of time. Most people are on their best behaviors when trying to get a woman and are dating. It's when they AREN'T that counts.
And women who are "looking for a relationship" make of themselves the most vulnerable of victims. Dating to find "MR. RIGHT" is actually detrimental to your long-term happiness, as a goal. You might find MR. RIGHT while on a date, but the litmus tests can't be applied when one's eyes are dazzled with lust or longing.
How does he/she treat people they don't have to be nice to? (Waiters, fast food mongers... strangers who happen to say "hi" as they walk by.)
How dose he hurt your feelings when he has to... canceling an appointment you were looking forward to when there's no other option, admitting to you that your lemon and onion pot pie needs a little work, etc.
How does he relate to his parents, not only when he sees them in front of them, but when he's away from their influence.
Does he badmouth people behind their backs and be friendly and accommodating to their face?
There are a lot of things that foster a sense of manliness in a man that take time to observe. Womanliness is also something that takes time to observe. Pretty much any female can dress the part and put on the role like she does that little black dress and stiletto heels... but being a woman is much more than simply wearing the uniform,
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#34081 - 01/16/10 09:24 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Baron dHolbach]
|
PeteOfTheDead
member
Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Brunswick, Melbourne, Victoria...
|
I recently discovered the Winston Churchill Motivational Posters while using stumbleupon.com and thought about posting the link here. I thought the quotes from him were amazing. Old boy knew his stuff.
_________________________
"The snake will always bite back." "Every moment is an experience." Jake 'The Snake' Roberts
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#34084 - 01/16/10 11:06 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
|
PeteOfTheDead
member
Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Brunswick, Melbourne, Victoria...
|
The only reason I didn't share it was because I sometimes hold myself back from posting links so I don't get banned for spamming.
I thought what I read was great. It turns out I didn't have to bother because someone beat me to linking to the hompage.
_________________________
"The snake will always bite back." "Every moment is an experience." Jake 'The Snake' Roberts
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#34086 - 01/17/10 04:15 AM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: PeteOfTheDead]
|
Baron dHolbach
member
Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
|
I thought what I read was great. It turns out I didn't have to bother because someone beat me to linking to the hompage.
I couldn't find the post you reference so I went ahead and did a quick google, and what I found was amusing enough to be worth a link: http://www.sloshspot.com/blog/03-06-2009/Motivational-Posters-Winston-Churchill-Edition-129
I have no idea if Churchill really said all those things, but as regards the art of manliness, I discern the following traits exemplified:
1. Frankness 2. Humor 3. Pragmatism
Manliness includes the above, I would say. Now that doesn't mean that a man must be frank or humorous 24/7, as that would on occasion be stupid, and there's nothing manly about stupidity. Being pragmatic 24/7 is another story entirely, however, and I recommend it, just as I recommend being skeptical, realistic, and cynical 24/7, not so much because these mentalities are manly, but rather, because they are smart. Frankness and humor, incidentally, are attractive to women, as far as I have been able to discern, and being attractive to women seems to be an important sub-topic on this thread. But in my experience nothing attracts a woman quite so readily as an absolute lack of desperation with regard to that woman's affections. If I don't fear rejection in the slightest, I will carry myself with an easy grace that hints at alpha male status, which will always at the very least catch a woman's attention, even if she doesn't outwardly respond due to conflicting considerations. Add athleticism to the mix and your batting average will climb still higher. Incorporate fighting skill into your athleticism and you will do still better, as the knowledge that one knows (or at least is learning) how to fight will increase the easy grace with which one carries oneself, hinting still more loudly at alpha male status.
_________________________
The baboon is the soul of man.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#35832 - 02/19/10 06:40 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
|
contragenic
stranger
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Phoenix,Az
|
Can't say that I relate At All. As a long time member of the Leather community I have learned to see hetero men as weak and unstable. The values found in the Leather community are much more stringent than anything in the het world, and the men are infinitely more masculine than any het men I know. Thanks for the link but it really did seem to be a wank fest.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#36176 - 03/09/10 10:08 AM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: BelialsGal]
|
Doomsage680
member
Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 109
Loc: NJ, USA
|
"But in my experience nothing attracts a woman quite so readily as an absolute lack of desperation with regard to that woman's affections. If I don't fear rejection in the slightest, I will carry myself with an easy grace that hints at alpha male status, which will always at the very least catch a woman's attention, even if she doesn't outwardly respond due to conflicting considerations." -BarondHolbach "The alpha male posture (knuckles forward, square shoulders, chin up and a wide-legged stance) is often sufficient to ensure others' attention and obedience." - Mahwrinskel
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and point out that the formerly ridiculed fool in the top hat, (Mystery from VH1's The Pick-Up Artist) actually is mostly about the above stated things. Sure he has some gimmicks, but obviously the guys who do them either won't succeed, or they will. Nothing wrong with either of those options, and any annoyed women have more to worry about than amateur Pick up artists. I can say that following both of those pieces of advice as well as select pieces of PUA literature have not only made me more confident and comfortable with myself and when approaching women, but have also led to more success. Disobeying them has always led to failure.
I would like to add to this thread by mentioning my own issues with gender identity. I have been developing my open-mindedness for some time now and often take pride in qualities I don't normally associate with men. Obviously my perception of these roles is disproportionately influenced by society, but if male and female roles are not simply the stereotype, I often think I have some feminine qualities. It's clear to me how this came to be; my mom wears the pants in the family and so I was likely more influenced by her consideration and sensitivity to others and their feelings. Also, I am aware that men tend to think in very direct patterns (not quite qualified to explain this but I think you know what I mean), while women think in more indirect patters, with other ideas connected. One example might be, ann- I had a bad day, some guy gave me trouble. bob- o, want me to beat him up? grrrr. (trying to immediately address the problem) or
ann- I had a bad day, some guy gave me trouble. diane- o really? tell me about it. (wanting to understand more and possibly remembering that ann feared sexual harrassment when starting this new job)
I often admire other people's (often men's) abilities to think in very logical step by step processes, while I usually have to try harder to think in a very step by step way, and usually think of other similar things and draw comparisons and conclusions indirectly. My mom seems to think of everything one might need for, say, a trip, very easily; while I think about what I'm doing there and what my ride is. I used to think that although teen girls are developmentally 2 years ahead of guys, I was at least a year ahead of guys my age. This wasn't sexually, just critical thinking-wise, and I may be biased in my self-assessment. I don't think I'm something in between...I am surely a proud man, but I am also proud of my other qualities that I just don't see the majority of other guys possess.
Often I admire qualities of other guys. I like power, in women a lot, but confidence draws me towards guys. It's not sexual, but it can't be the same as other guys. I almost know without asking that it isn't. And although I am not angry with myself about this, I must admit I am somewhat confused. I don't want to hide any part of myself, but since I do not yet know how I wish to present this part of myself to friends and associates, as a satanist it is simply unwise to be reckless, especially with how I am perceived. Maybe this worry in itself is homophobic. But I also don't care too much if I'm a little homophobic, it's something I'm working on and I am an outspoken supporter of glbtq issues and equality in marriage. And it's really about my comfort. I think. See, there's a lot of self-doubt, another quality I like (one side of introspection and self awareness) but is I think more feminine.
I'm a straight guy who likes choir, theatre, painting, writing. I'm serious about rap and exploring my artistic side further. I'm not so much searching for answers here on how to feel more manly, and I'm sure that a lot of my confusion is just hormones running around, so I guess I'm offering myself to you all because you guys and gals and everyone here have a lot of wisdom I've been lucky enough to pick up on.
If you read this far, I hope you were able to connect with some of what I'm feeling.
_________________________
"I who have nothing but the comfort of my sins" - Vinny Paz
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#36202 - 03/10/10 09:18 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: XiaoGui17]
|
6Satan6Archist6
senior member
Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2233
Loc: Oregon
|
You are not God's gift to womankind.
Uh, yes I am.
From my experience, a little arrogance/cockiness can be a good thing and work to your benefit. There are times where it can and will backfire but if you are just "playing the game" for the fun of it then it doesn't really matter. A few misses here and there are always worth it when you get those hits.
_________________________
Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#36204 - 03/11/10 01:04 AM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Doomsage680]
|
CanisMajor
stranger
Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
|
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and point out that the formerly ridiculed fool in the top hat, (Mystery from VH1's The Pick-Up Artist) actually is mostly about the above stated things. Sure he has some gimmicks, but obviously the guys who do them either won't succeed, or they will.
I never found The Pick-Up Artist to be particularly manly or masculine. Metro-sexual,perhaps?
The ability to read people well and being self-confident definitely have their merits.
But to follow his "advice",you would: shave your chest? wax your brows? act effeminate? sport a hat and scepter? wear eyeliner? tote an emo-kid "wingman"?
How about an AFI haircut to boot?
The future does not seem to bode well for masculinity.
_________________________
For every complex problem,there is a solution that is simple,neat,and wrong. H.L Mencken
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#36219 - 03/11/10 09:19 AM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: CanisMajor]
|
Shadow Dragon
pledge
Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 95
|
I am a woman who supports the resurrection of Manliness. I'm tired of meeting men with effeminate handshakes, men who don't take responsibility for their actions, and men that aren't upwardly motivated to improve their own lives.
Man up!
Hats off to all the fellows out there that don't sit at home on the couch, but rather pursue their interests and passions.
Isn't self-motivation and ambition good things regardless of gender? A woman who isn't particularly masculine could have the same qualities that you speak of so how is it "manning up?" In my opinion, it's just becoming a better person and they just decided to market it to men to get it to sell better.
The future does not seem to bode well for masculinity.
No it doesn't but it doesn't look bad either. Things like this tend to go in cycles has cultures change over time. A hundred years from now it could be completely different. And I'm sure people were complaining in a similar way during the sixties when guys started growing their hair long and wearing tight jeans.
Edited by Shadow Dragon (03/11/10 09:20 AM)
_________________________
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." - Socrates Cogito ergo sum.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#36594 - 03/16/10 05:14 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Shadow Dragon]
|
BelialsGal
stranger
Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 40
Loc: Tulsa, OK
|
Shadow Dragon, I agree with you 100% on the issue of self motivation and amibition being standards for everyone, regardless of gender. I feel the same way.
As for comment "Man up" it's a reference to the Art of Manliness website book, blog, etc., the writer, of Art of Manliness. Both the author of Art of Manliness and myself are Oklahoma natives. In our neck of the woods, it's a colloquial term used to say "suck it up", We also say "Cowboy up" which means the same thing, but is not meant to exclude cowgirls.
You make a valid point, that the Art of Manliness is selling to the male demographic. I realize the message is not profound, but I like the message none the less. This thread was titled "The Art Of Manliness", so I posted my support of the "movement".
If you're interested in the female version of this book. It is titled, "Miss Manners' Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behaviour" written by Judith Martin. Same message, targets the female demographic. Again, I hold the same standards for both sexes, and I support the message, no matter how they sell it back to me.
Morgan- You were correct in regards to my dating preference. I want to date a masculine man. I am a strong woman who needs an equal counterpart. If I want effeminate, I'll switch teams*.
Note* "Switch teams" is a colloquial term for changing one's sexual orientation.
Edited by BelialsGal (03/16/10 05:33 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#36603 - 03/16/10 06:12 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
|
XiaoGui17
member
Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 310
Loc: Austin, TX
|
Simply because I can multi-task, I can speak about unpleasant topics without losing my cool, I can take care of our daughter and I clean the house, military-style. To me, those things are simply qualities, but my wife has a funny way of looking at masculinity. Apparently, masculinity equals simplicity and stupidity in her book.
Ever watch TV? Anything with a penis is either gay (Will & Grace), idiotic and ugly (Peter Griffin), or socially inept (Big Bang Theory). The popular media makes fun of men, and the only ones who are even remotely admirable are effeminate (gay). It doesn't help that lots of macho men themselves perpetuate the stereotype.
_________________________
'Tis only daylight that makes us sin.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#36620 - 03/17/10 04:09 AM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: XiaoGui17]
|
Doomsage680
member
Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 109
Loc: NJ, USA
|
The popular media does lower the bar to get our attention on a simpler, more understandable level, but not all of it portrays men this way. Some of it romanticizes how men should be, like Twilight, and some of it is shows how they are, like Lost, South Park, or Ferris Bueller's Day Off. There's plenty that gives men credit, just like there' plenty that also lowers women. But I think you are right in how men are being characterized, as many comedians seem to perpetuate the stereotypes, though it is obvious and comedic when they do.
I gave funny examples but I believe South Park can do no wrong. Anyway. Big Bang Theory is definitely an example of social ineptness. Maybe even House, though his fellow doctors are pretty legitimate characters in my opinion.
_________________________
"I who have nothing but the comfort of my sins" - Vinny Paz
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#36970 - 03/24/10 01:20 AM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
|
Nyte
member
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 360
Loc: Ohio
|
Being a man is what Rudyard Kipling speaks about in "If". Everything else is just pretense and how your body's built. If you can live your life according to "If", then you're a man. That's how I feel, and that's how I'll keep feeling unless a better definition comes along.
Thank you Maw, for reminding me of a good memory.
I printed that poem for my oldest and asked him to read it when he and I were at odds for a while there. A close friend had lead me to read it and I hoped it would help guide my oldest a bit, while he struggled through "growing pains". Not long after that I found it taped to the back of his bedroom door. I asked him one day what he thought it meant and he simply said, "It means being like my step-dad." I knew then that my oldest, even without his birth-father in his life was going to be ok and would get through his growing pains all right.
I plan on making a new copy of the poem with some added graphics to frame for my oldest when we get settled into our new home. He and I have come a long way and he's still becoming a man, but after watching him with his girlfriend and in his life, I know he's on a good path.
I'm fortunate to know the men I do, simply because most of them that have come to stay in my life definitely don't fall into the TV depictions. Then again, I know I don't fall into the TV depiction of a woman either.
_________________________
If only just for today.....
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#37182 - 03/31/10 11:32 AM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Sireal]
|
CanisMajor
stranger
Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
|
I have a very powerful masculine side and a well developed feminine side. I have considered it important to be what ever I need to be when I need to be it and have been many things and done some better than others.
There's a right-brain/left-brain corrolation here.
Some integration between the two is absolutely necessary.
Most creative,artistic,or musical endeavors are usually just an abstract expression of one's right-brain "inner bitch".
_________________________
For every complex problem,there is a solution that is simple,neat,and wrong. H.L Mencken
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#44272 - 11/20/10 10:26 AM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Equilibrio]
|
Blasphemer
lurker
Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 4
Loc: NSW, Australia
|
There is a fascinating by Jack Malebanche (ex CoS) called Androphilia which discusses Manliness in some detail, sadly it is OOP. There is also Blood Brother (still in print). He presents a fascinating case from a androphile i.e. male-male lover angle. He argues for a strong, virile form of homosexuality rather than the more current politically correct form. This debate can be traced right back to the origins of homosexual theory in the 1800s when thinkers like Adolf Brand and Hans Bluher argued for a male based Mystery cult tradition (Mannerbund). While others argued that homosexuals were women in mens bodies. Jacks approach is fascinating as his books while directed at homosexuals have a lot to say about regaining masculinity in a culture emasculated by feminism.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#62919 - 12/24/11 10:03 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Tropix]
|
Morgan
senior member
Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2303
Loc: New York City
|
I like my men masculine, and my women to be feminine.
Yes, some of it may be gender roles, but I am secure enough to admit what I can and can not do. WHILE also keeping in mind that what I am able to do is more than some men are able to do.
Intelligent decision making does not depend on what sex you are, both can be equally stupid. As for racism, sexual oppression, and religion, none of those fuckers are going anywhere anytime soon. Human nature, they all want a victim/scapegoat that they can use. Besides, when you live up to your stereotype, you are your stereotype.
As for the male you are, no one cares. You just come across as kinda metrosexual mixed with emo.
M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear Fuck em if they can't take a joke Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#62937 - 12/25/11 07:45 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Equilibrio]
|
Michael A.Aquino
veteran member
Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
|
I generally avoid discussions about sexuality, since in my experience there's no surer way to send everyone howling to the treetops. But I will venture these few observations:
(1) Love and sex are two different things. Love is metaphysical; sex is physical. Lots of people blur this distinction and mistake one for the other, or gift-wrap them together. Often the result of this is that if one doesn't work, the other gets blamed for it.
(2) I'm assuming this thread is essentially about [physical] sexuality, so that's what I'm now focusing on:
(3) There is nothing particularly complicated about sex, really. You're given a basic deck of cards as either an XX or an XY. It may be a well-hormone-balanced deck, in which case you'll go happily through incarnated life as Ozzie or Harriet Nelson.
(4) If, however, you get too much or too little XY testosterone or XX estrogen for your deck, things get screwed up. You don't look the way you should, or think about yourself or others (of either sex) the way you should. It may come out backwards, or neutral, or just mixed-up.
(5) The usual popular debate about "gender identity/sexuality" is whether (a) it is a matter of personal choice or (b) one is born that way. Anti-LGBTers usually insist it is #(a), so they can blame LGBTers for making a bad choice. LGBTers usually insist that it is #(b), so they can say it's not their fault; they had no choice.
(6) The LGBTers are right, but not at the DNA level. [If this were so, they would disappear after one or two generations from non-reproduction.] They are right at the hormone strength & balance level, because the strength & mix of what they've got dictates what they are.
(7) The LGBT critics are also right, but again for the wrong reason. An LGBT decision is not a discretionary, arbitrary choice by someone just because he/she feels like being weird. It's physical-body-dictated. It is a choice in that the individual (with medical access & financial resources) can choose to analyze, identify, and correct the hormonal disfunctions. Basically you get your hormones measured, then add what's needed to rebalance them. Presto, you're Ozzie or Harriet Nelson.
(8.) Hormone wackiness can be something you're born with, or encounter at any time in physical life. Women all go through major weirdness with menopause. Less-well-known is that from about age 40 male testosterone production starts to decline, leading not only to loss of libido and cooked-asparagus syndrome but to all sorts of general body deterioration (muscles, bones, strength, etc.). There are compensatory hormone supplements and treatments for both genders available; see your doctor to get tested and if necessary prescribed.
(9) Of course if you've got a weird hormonal imbalance that you've decided you like, that's your business. Just don't deceive yourself into believing that you're helplessly stuck with it.
(10) All of which is to say that sexuality is really something that you can switch on/off, and dial up/down, far more mechanically than most people realize. They get diverted into emotional, religious, romantic, etc. peripheral issues, that's all, and that accumulates a lot of personal baggage. If you've spent years going through all the trauma that a male homosexual goes through, adjusting your personality and lifestyle to it, and then find out that you could have been Ozzie Nelson all along by just dabbing some Androgel on your shoulders every morning, you'd probably be somewhat pissed off, right?
(11) Then, in the fun-and-games department, there's how much of which hormonal balance you radiate to others, which your conscious senses don't pick up any more than they do infra/ultra-sound/light, but your detectors left over from your caveman/woman ancestors still do: pheromones.
(12) In all this I am not telling you what to think or do about your sexuality - just that your consciousness is far more influenced by your OU-physical bodily functions than you may realize, and that you do have the ability to detect and control these if you wish. As always with magical acts involving the OU, wisdom is essential. [We all know the horror stories about bodybuilders and other professional athletes who have abused steroids, etc.] What you want is to be in intelligent control of your own body, not to be at its mercy if it's jerking you around.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino
[On Ignore: Dan_Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux]
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#62938 - 12/25/11 08:24 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Morgan]
|
Tropix
stranger
Registered: 10/23/10
Posts: 14
Loc: Minneapolis
|
When I say, "I like my men masculine, and my women to be feminine." That is what I like in my bed. If I want to fuck a chick, then I fuck a chick, not some emo crying metrosexual man. That was the point I was making.
Society doesn't play a role in that. I make that choice.
As for gender roles/traits, they have some uses but don't define me or how I view my life. They are tools.
It's all options, choices, but you still choose what you like and how you define yourself.
M
It's pretty clear to me that I'm not attracted to females, but throw a boy in my bed and there's a good chance something might happen. It's hard to describe if I'll want him or not. He might be masco or femme. What doesn't change however, is the biology. That's what makes a man. I could be unattracted to him for a billion other reasons, but that certain part of the male anatomy is how my drive decides if it's a man or not.
(A side note: By having that simple stipulation of anatomy, it's almost as if "man on man" were a fetish or a hobby. I wouldn't deny that a sexual attraction to females couldn't be constructed, but my position on that is that such change isn't necessary)
As for the male you are, no one cares. You just come across as kinda metrosexual mixed with emo.
That's kind of funny to me. First of all, as I now graphically described, I'm a homo. The second thing that comes to mind is how you later described not wanting to fuck "some emo crying metrosexual man."
I don't know what sex you are or if you have sex with men or woman or both, but as a man, I will gladly rip off whatever you got. I'll leave mowing the lawn to some prick who can't even deliver an orgasm.
Traditional gender roles vary from rational to complete bullshit. To deny the obvious differences between the minds of men and women is just plain ignorant.
There's certainly this and that trait that appears throughout the population with more frequency. However, when it comes to uninterrupted consistency and exclusivity, can you name anything that would accurately spot the difference between a man and a woman, aside from the physical markers? I don't mean that as a challenge, but I honestly want to know. When I hear statements such as "Men are this way..." I have yet to hear something that I can agree is always true or always untrue for the opposite sex.
_________________________
After me will come someone lesser than I. Someone so stupid he can't take off his own damn shoes.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#62942 - 12/25/11 10:58 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Morgan]
|
dust-e sheytoon
member
Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 135
Loc: NYC
|
Men love blowjobs, and will do almost anything for them. Women want love, therefore most will do anything including blow jobs for it. This is true of many men and women. And the fact that many men are afraid to love the women they are most passionate with/about certainly complicates things.
Also, there are many men who hate themselves, and don't respect women who love them.
Love is such a minefield. To me, being respected and feared seem far preferable to being loved.
_________________________
Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#62943 - 12/25/11 10:59 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Morgan]
|
Tropix
stranger
Registered: 10/23/10
Posts: 14
Loc: Minneapolis
|
I meant no ill will toward you, Morgan. Take that comment as an ambiguous misstep in artistic license (or see stipulation two of your signature and carry on).
I am saying that I can be aggressive and masculine in bed despite any masculine appearances not in bed. Hence, if you like a man in bed, he isn't necessarily the lawn mower man you see in real life.
So the ripping off of whatever you got (I still honestly have no idea if you are a man or a woman) would be on behalf of all the crybabies. Anyone can shoot a gun, right?
In truth, I'm not violent about sexuality or gender topics. I'm not uncomfortable in the sense of having a phobia, but I do disagree with false claims.
For instance, according to one of the books by The Art of Masculinity that I paged through about a year ago, hair highlights are okay for women but not for men. Who says? They do. A bunch of people do. Was there some hormonal draw that explains why women gravitated to it culturally? Perhaps. But does that make it okay for women to do it and not men? No.
I have to say, the men wanting blow jobs argument is crap. Even if it were true, it still has to do with the male anatomy itself and it's alleged sensitivity, not a psychological trait. Women don't have a penis, so they can't possibly get that same blow job. Likewise, "men can't give birth" (in the traditional female manner) is an argument of simple definition. "Women are better parents" is an argument that requires greater length, and it hasn't been proven to me.
How the male anatomy repercusses throughout his psychology and life is also unpredictable. I don't enjoy getting blow jobs. I prefer the death grip myself. I like to give blow jobs, but not as a method of payment for love. I enjoy it. It's not a vile sacrifice.
Not everyone esteems sex either. Blow jobs aren't always worth too much, and are also dependent on the attraction to the person giving them.
Women will do almost anything for love? Not close. They may however give a blow job out of love dispite their distaste for it. They may do it for a promotion. It's a stereotype, but still possible.
Gay men? They'll do it to make you love them and they'll do almost anything to get one... or not.
I find that blowjob argument to be more idiotic than saying "men won't stop to ask for directions." The latter would be on a morning radio show, the former in a Ben Stiller comedy. Neither would win in a real debate. You're smarter than that.
Arguments such as men are better at math and men make better firefighters, can possibly be shown statistically, perhaps even reliably. But there are still females who are great at them and still males that are awful.
And then there are the those born with both genders or neither. They are regarded as weak and inconsequential those who celebrate Darwinism, but I won't discount their potential savantly contributions to the universe. I suppose that's where I differ when it comes to eugenics and superiority, and also explains why I'm no more satisfied with established masculinity than I am with established society as a whole.
_________________________
After me will come someone lesser than I. Someone so stupid he can't take off his own damn shoes.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#62976 - 12/26/11 10:28 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: felixgarnet]
|
RAIDER
member
Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 102
Loc: PA
|
felix, Happy Boxing Day At their personal best ( whether sinister, sexy, nuturing, etc...)humans can be beautiful.......this shit about the difference between men and women ( the only real differences are biological) and how men are supposed to be, etc..........are you fucking kidding me?! I suppose 'Men are from Mars, and Women are from Venus' too? We are fucking individuals.
_________________________
DARK WOLF
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#62977 - 12/26/11 11:00 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Michael A.Aquino]
|
RAIDER
member
Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 102
Loc: PA
|
So your saying that heterosexual desires are the ONLY ones that are correctly natural......I guess we better round up those gay penguins and shoot them up with hormones. I'd like to know where you get your biased bullshit from?
_________________________
DARK WOLF
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#62983 - 12/27/11 01:44 AM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: RAIDER]
|
Michael A.Aquino
veteran member
Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
|
So your saying that heterosexual desires are the ONLY ones that are correctly natural. No, re-read it again, carefully, with particular attention to ¶12.
That said, of course the natural design and function of animal sexuality is for selection and reproduction. Penises are designed to work with vaginas, not rectums, mouths, ears, or nostrils. Can you stick them in other things? Sure. Do I personally care? Not in the least, as long as you don't scare the cats.
Doing unnatural sex things with your body parts is no different than doing other unnatural things with them, such as piercing your tongue, getting tattooed or branded, or putting a large plate in your lip. And of course the field of medicine involves extensive unnatural body modifications, from vaccinations to surgery. I'm walking around with two artificial lenses in my eyes because my natural ones were starting to develop cataracts.
I guess we better round up those gay penguins and shoot them up with hormones. Various animal species have quirks that don't make much sense from a natural design standpoint. Lemmings jump off cliffs. There's a species of crane that knows how to take off and fly, but not to land. When one of them comes down, it's always a head-over-claws crash-and-burn. If you've found some penguins who are careless about whom they mate with, I'd assess them in much the same way. [Apparently enough of them are heterosexual to keep that species going.]
I'd like to know where you get your biased bullshit from? Just looking at the Objective Universe for 65 years to see how it functions. Mostly it is automatic, except that random outside factors can disrupt things to varying degrees and over varying extensions of time.
Human self-consciousness, which is not only my personal interest but the core principle of phenomena such as Satanism, is the only thing that is external to the OU and can operate on it for whim alone. You can do something not because your environment forces you to, or your body forces you to, but just because you want to.
The point of my previous post was that in animal/OU sexuality, humans are to some extent impelled, or compelled, by their body's natural functions. If these are disrupted, depleted, or misadjusted, your consciousness can be impaired or overridden. So if you have a sudden desire to chase after the next flock of penguins you see, you might want to get your various hormones checked, and brought into their ideal balance, that's all.
Once you've corrected all of your relevant body mechanisms, then what you do is 100% your discretionary decision. Among other things that means that you carry 100% discretionary responsibility for it; you can't blame it on your genetics, or your body features, or society, or your parents, or anything else except YOURSELF.
And that is where some people involved in unnatural things get touchy, because they want something else, anything else, to blame it on. As in "The Devil made me do it." and endless variations thereof.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino
[On Ignore: Dan_Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux]
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#63005 - 12/27/11 12:22 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Michael A.Aquino]
|
RAIDER
member
Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 102
Loc: PA
|
You are biased...you consider any sex acts that are not for procreation unnatural. natural; having or constituting a classification based on features EXISTING in nature. You have taken it upon yourself to decide what nature is SUPPOSED to be.
_________________________
DARK WOLF
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#63007 - 12/27/11 01:47 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: dust-e sheytoon]
|
Michael A.Aquino
veteran member
Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
|
Here's my hypothesis. Natural selection/planet Earth created bisexual and homosexual animals/humans in order to: 1.) slow down overpopulation That doesn't work for obvious reasons. When Gene Roddenberry originally proposed Star Trek to Paramount, he planned to have equal numbers of men and women as the Enterprise crew. Paramount censors nixed that because it would imply that there was unmarried bonking going on aboard the starship. They drastically reduced the number of crewwomen. "That's all right," said GR in a later interview, "The ladies of the Enterprise are very hardy and can handle several men apiece."
2.) allow the particular animals/humans to focus their talents and attention on things other than reproduction. I don't see normal sexuality as significantly impinging on this. There's plenty of creativity going around regardless of one's drives or whims.
3.) find pleasure and release tension even when a "mate" of the opposite gender was not available. Historically this is true:
... Art Deco is thus a blend of exotic, mysterious antiquity and the image of the machine. When human figures appear, they are similarly mysterious, exotic, and streamlined machines.
As if this is not enough, they are also oddly cold and de-sexed as well. The 1920s was a period of flourishing homosexuality among both sexes, caused in major part by the relative sundering of males and females by World War I and the war’s toll of many millions of male lives. Men had spent years largely in the company of other men, while many women now had no chance of getting husbands even had all surviving males been interested. This plight was reflected, perhaps, in the “bobbed” hairstyles and flat-chested fashions of the 1920’s - and in the “unisexualization” of Art Deco.
All of which is to say that Art Deco is beautiful, cold, streamlined, and weird.
At first glance it appears pretty, but there is also something disturbing about it. Like the robotrix in Metropolis, it suggests something subliminally sinister, something vaguely abnormal - as though it is not now dangerous but will be if left to develop long enough.
There is a touch of the psychotic about it, as though it represents a view of the world seen through the eyes of someone who took hallucinogenic drugs while standing in the middle of a 1920s’ airplane factory. Nowhere is this peculiar atmosphere of the art form better exemplified than in the two Dr. Phibes films, where the Abominable Anton constantly surrounds himself with a phantasmagoria of Art Deco artifacts ...
4.) increase potential social bonding. Statistics needed.
As for "manliness," some of the manliest men I have met have been Scotsmen who are self-confident enough to wear kilts! I have and regularly wear three: Campbell (my clan), State of California, and U.S. Army Special Forces. The California tartan is useful in case I unknowingly blunder into a MacDonald enclave, and SF for military events.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino
[On Ignore: Dan_Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux]
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#63008 - 12/27/11 01:57 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: RAIDER]
|
Tropix
stranger
Registered: 10/23/10
Posts: 14
Loc: Minneapolis
|
The distinction I see with Michael and Dust-e's interpretations is that they both view evolution as having an intent. Darwinism unfolds via mutations. Mutations that enhance survival are more likely to reproduce themselves. In Darwinism there is no intent behind the mutations, it's just randomly mixed up Gs, As, Ts, and Cs.
On the other hand, theories of intelligent design (" Penises are designed to work with vaginas, not rectums, mouths, ears, or nostrils"), guided evolution ("Natural selection/planet Earth created bisexual and homosexual animals/humans in order to"), or some other cosmic order (synchronization in the holographic space-time continuum don'tcha know) pose that there is a life force that decides on traits with a purpose.
Heterosexual sex is only distictively natural if their is an existing intent. If there isn't an intent, homosexuality is just another ingredient in our evolution. A determent against overpopulation is certainly an advantage. It should be noted that depending upon the causes of homosexuality, it isn't necessarily a dead end trait. "The gay gene" is a very simplistic model. It could be that reproduction by homosexuals, heterosexuals, and bisexuals are equally likely to result in gayness, although I think acceptance (a cultural factor) has a lot to do with its development.
_________________________
After me will come someone lesser than I. Someone so stupid he can't take off his own damn shoes.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#63053 - 12/27/11 07:20 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: felixgarnet]
|
dust-e sheytoon
member
Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 135
Loc: NYC
|
Just FYI, homosexual people are not sterile. I know plenty with kids! And eventually lesbians will be able to get each other pregnant, with sperm created from their wife/partner's stem cells! No sperm donor needed! \m/ This has a neat CGI science video of the sperm http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/health...university.html
Edited by dust-e sheytoon (12/27/11 07:23 PM)
_________________________
Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#63060 - 12/27/11 08:19 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: Tropix]
|
Oxus
member
Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 172
|
Darwinism unfolds via mutations. Mutations that enhance survival are more likely to reproduce themselves. In Darwinism there is no intent behind the mutations, it's just randomly mixed up Gs, As, Ts, and Cs.
On the other hand, theories of intelligent design (" Penises are designed to work with vaginas, not rectums, mouths, ears, or nostrils"), guided evolution ("Natural selection/planet Earth created bisexual and homosexual animals/humans in order to"), or some other cosmic order (synchronization in the holographic space-time continuum don'tcha know) pose that there is a life force that decides on traits with a purpose. Doesn't Darwinism / Natural Selection work as a meme, following all kinds of routes but eventually losing the routes that go no where, and keeping the ones that do?
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against non-hetero relations, but the first order of any/all species is survival of the species. Perhaps, the non-hetero paths are simply dead end memes that have slowly developed and will slowly disappear as they become recognized as useless to the species' survival.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#63073 - 12/27/11 10:58 PM
Re: The Art Of Manliness
[Re: dust-e sheytoon]
|
RAIDER
member
Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 102
Loc: PA
|
I love the Spock character, he was such a realist.......he would awesomely inform folks when they were being illogical.
_________________________
DARK WOLF
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: Woland, Mercury_Templar, fakepropht, Morgan, Nemesis, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Bacchae, Diavolo, Asmedious, Fist
|
|