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#9372 - 06/03/08 08:26 PM You sometimes find the oddest things.....
Morgan Offline
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You sometimes find the oddest things when not looking.

"I trembled at Thy coming, O my god, for Thy messenger was more terrible than the Death-star.

On the threshold stood the fulminant figure of Evil, the horror of emptiness, with his ghastly eyes like poisonous wells....."

Now what story does that sound like????
Nope, not Star Wars.

Its from:

Liber Cordis Cincti Serpente
Liber LXV
first published 1929

I always like to read Crowleys works and think about them on different levels. This was just a suprise to find last night.

Morg
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#9375 - 06/03/08 10:09 PM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: Morgan]
97and107 Offline
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Good stuff Morgan, I've never been much of a Crowley reader, but you certainly can't ignore him...

Abrahadabra, the reward of Ra-Hoor-Khuit...and....the deathstar?

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#9535 - 06/12/08 12:22 AM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: Morgan]
It'sJustMe Offline
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Registered: 03/30/08
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Liber Cordis Cincti Serpente eh?

Was that the dirtiest story you’ve ever read or what? ;\)

Seeing as this book is what the initial probationer of the A:.A:. received, we can assume the answer to the whole system is contained within its pages. Interesting choice of literature Morgan.

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#9552 - 06/12/08 11:56 AM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: It'sJustMe]
Morgan Offline
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True, I was just looking for something, to explain something and it appeared.

Yeah, its kinda a little raunchy, it was oddly appropriate for what I was looking for, lets just say it made sense.

I really didn't expect to find a copy of the equinox at Boarders. That was the first story in the book I found. I didn't know that it was the book the initial probat recieved.

Just kinda weird/cool when literal meets metaphorical, and blends wells.

Thanks for that info.

M
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#9609 - 06/15/08 03:42 PM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: Morgan]
97and107 Offline
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Crowley bores the hell out of me if I'm actually looking for answers, he fills everything with his colorful poetic opinions, which is nice - if you want to read flowery language. When it comes to the real bones of the science he was dealing with, Liber Al vel Legis really shines, and hell, Aiwass wrote that...
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#9664 - 06/17/08 06:50 PM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: It'sJustMe]
Morgan Offline
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I reread the LXV again, its not really raunchy or dirty.
Its more of a love story.

About self-love, passion, and understanding between oneself, ones' lover, ones' inner god, and the universe.
At various points it does talk about certain acts, blood, dolphins, and mergers of flesh. I think it also goes into how one should merge all parts of themselves into one-self and thru understanding of their past, present, innermost and outermost views become whole within the greater picture of it all.
Kinda 1+1=3

Yes, at some points, it may seem mildly risque, and I can see how in the past it might have been viewed differently and more harshly. Since times have changes, individuals have become more sexually open and aware, so some of it including the violent imagitry isn't that big of a deal anymore. I think its good, and definately food for thought for greater introspection.

M
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#9790 - 06/24/08 08:11 PM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: Morgan]
It'sJustMe Offline
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Registered: 03/30/08
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Well put Morgan.

The book is essentially a guide through the A:. A:. grades. For example, your original quotes (Chapter 4, Verses 33-34), are the initial realization of the Magister Templi grade.

In 33 the Ego trembles at the realization that the HGA will destroy it, and the “threshold” in 34 is the Abyss.

The only thing I would correct in your post is the math.
1+ (-1) = 0


“It is shown me that this heart is the heart that rejoiceth, and the serpent is the serpent of Death, for herein all the symbols are interchangeable, for each one containeth in itself its own opposite. And this is the great Mystery of the Supernals that are beyond the Abyss. For below the Abyss, contradiction is division; but above the Abyss, contradiction is Unity.”

-Liber 418, 5th Aethyr

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#9793 - 06/24/08 11:51 PM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: It'sJustMe]
Morgan Offline
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Once the Ego realizes that the HGA will destroy it, there is just laughter. The Abyss, is just the point where you go to find that you are just right back where you started, and that for as far as you have come, as much as you think you know, you still come to realize that you know nothing, and that in the all of it all, you still know nothing.
You just have to laugh at the whole of it cause otherwise you cry and are lost.

Ahh, the math...

It came out of the dolphin into bird upon reflection.
A few days before I read the lines, I saw it in person on a beach in malibu.
The dolphin (1) lives in water and needs the air.
The bird (1) lives in air and needs the water.
Without the space between each which can not be measured, nothing would work, they would get into each others way.
The bird would crash into the dolphins, and the reverse.

So, you need the inner the water of being, the air of enlightenment, and the middle space to ground you. If you can't give yourself space to grow each part of yourself, nothing balances.

Yes, it comes to a point where everything is just everything, and you can look at everything and understand all sides of it without being confused at any of it.

At least to me...

Morg

Ps.
Started rereading Carnal Alchemey today. It kinda ties into that Liber as well from a different angle.
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#9850 - 06/28/08 12:41 AM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: Morgan]
It'sJustMe Offline
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[quote=Morgan]Once the Ego realizes that the HGA will destroy it, there is just laughter. The Abyss, is just the point where you go to find that you are just right back where you started, and that for as far as you have come, as much as you think you know, you still come to realize that you know nothing, and that in the all of it all, you still know nothing.
You just have to laugh at the whole of it cause otherwise you cry and are lost.




The Abyss and the HGA are certainly two of the most interesting aspects of Crowley’s philosophy. Have you read “Liber OS ABYSMI vel DAATH”?

I find it intriguing that he puts the student through a process that requires experience rather than knowledge, eventually leading to a place where reason must be abandoned in order to enter the final three grades.

What could possibly be beyond reason, other than the unreasonable? Or better yet, what could be more unreasonable than the will?

As for the HGA, there is a great video on this silly web page…

http://www.hypnosisschool.org/50.php

…that shows a fellow who has tapped into his HGA via the marvels of a Corpus Callosotomy.

So why would it be necessary to abandon reason and destroy the ego in order to experience the will in its “true” form?

The answer may be found in the work of Benjamin Libet, where it shows that the brain indicates Will activity, before the conscious mind is aware of it. In other words, every choice that we think we make, has already been made below the threshold of consciousness.

http://www.imprint.co.uk/pdf/Libet.pdf

So what then is the point of coming up with all these reasons to go jogging, when my brain already knows I’m going back to sleep?


-Me (with ego intact)

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#9981 - 07/01/08 02:49 AM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: It'sJustMe]
Morgan Offline
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Liber O vel Manus et Sagittae also has to do with doing things.

"Have you read “Liber OS ABYSMI vel DAATH”?"
No, I dont think so, I assume it has to do with the abyss and daath (tree of life bit). I looked thru my books and can't seem to find it, I will look online to see if it will show up. I will let you know once I read it.

"I find it intriguing that he puts the student through a process that requires experience rather than knowledge, eventually leading to a place where reason must be abandoned in order to enter the final three grades."
There comes a point, where you have to act, and just do. Not think, but have it flow naturally without question. This also goes along with yoga, meditation, and various fighting styles.


"What could possibly be beyond reason, other than the unreasonable? Or better yet, what could be more unreasonable than the will?"
More unreasonable than the reasonable, or the will. The depth of a man soul going forth blindly without knowledge or the understanding of why.
This is different from the above because one is to act from experience, the other is to act as told.


"So why would it be necessary to abandon reason and destroy the ego in order to experience the will in its “true” form?"
Because sometimes, you need a strong new paradigm inorder to grow.

"The answer may be found in the work of Benjamin Libet, where it shows that the brain indicates Will activity, before the conscious mind is aware of it. In other words, every choice that we think we make, has already been made below the threshold of consciousness."
From what I undertstand of how things work, this ties into deja vu. The mind sees something and matches it with a similar situations, then reacts according to past situation. Almost in no time, thus since you always sleep in, odds are you will today too


Morgan
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Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#10020 - 07/02/08 03:09 AM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: It'sJustMe]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
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To make my interpretations clearer, I have grouped sections together, and typed my opinions in italics.The underlined words are my own doing, except for the hyperlinks. Hopefully, this will make my thoughts easier to understand. Well at least to those who get the jist of it. Or maybe I just lost it, and have no clue about this at all....

Liber OS ABYSMI vel DAATH
sub figura CDLXXIV
A.·. A.·.
Publication in Class B.
Imprimatur:
N. Fra A.·. A.·.

1. This book is the Gate of the Secret of the Universe.
2. Let the Exempt Adept procure the Prolegomena of Kant, and study it, paying special attention to the Antinomies.
3. Also Hume's doctrine of Causality in his "Enquiry."
4. Also Herbert Spencer's discussion of the three theories of the Universe in his "First Principles," Part I.
5. Also Huxley's Essays on Hume and Berkeley.
6. Also Crowley's Essays: Berashith, Time, The Soldier and the Hunchback, et cetera.
7. Also the "Logik" of Hegel.
8. Also the "Questions of King Milinda" and the Buddhist Suttas which bear on Metaphysic.
9. Let him also be accomplished in Logic. (Formal Logic, Keynes.) Further let him study any classical works to which his attention may be sufficiently directed in the course of his reading.
10. Now let him consider special problems, such as the Origin of the World, the Origin of Evil, Infinity, the Absolute, the Ego and the non-Ego, Freewill and Destiny, and such others as may attract him.

How thru knowledge of experience thru reading, thinking, and understanding brings you to a deeper place in regards to the various issues thus, the ability to see & understand both sides of an issue in regards to All issues without a judgement call.

11. Let him subtly and exactly demonstrate the fallacies of every known solution, and let him seek a true solution by his right Ingenium. (see the other side, possibilities)
12. In all this let him be guided only by clear reason, and let him forcibly suppress all other qualities such as Intuition, Aspiration, Emotion, and the like. (science proof)
13. During these practices all forms of Magick Art and Meditation are forbidden to him. It is forbidden to hi to seek any refuge from his intellect.

If by a mans' thoughts of reason alone he is unable to grasp both sides of the intangible substance, he is not ready. He must work thru himself, by himself, for himself inorder to overcome himself.

14. Let then his reason hurl itself again and again against the blank wall of mystery which will confront him.
15. Thus also following is it said, and we deny it not. At last automatically his reason will take up the practice, sua sponte, and he shall have no rest therefrom.
16. Then will all phenomena which present themselves to him appear meaningless and disconnected, and his own Ego will break up into a series of impressions having no relation one with the other, or with any other thing.

You can't hide from yourself, no matter how much you try. Once experienced the idea of reason and the idea of seeing possibility both sides of the substance, you have to carry through. You have to sure of yourself to see the all & yet no-thing of everything. Once that occurs you just see pieces that flow like water; intangable, mutable, and insubstanceable. You have to Will it to occur and do this consciencely.

17. Let this state then become so acute that it is in truth Insanity, and let this continue until exhaustion.
18. According to a certain deeper tendency of the individual will be the duration of this state.
19. It may end in real insanity, which concludes the activities of the Adept during this present life, or by his rebirth into his own body and mind with the simplicity of a little child.

You have to Will yourself to see all the sides at once and do it till it flows. You either go insane or see it with the innocence of a child, and laugh at the joke of it all.

20. And then shall he find all his faculties unimpaired, yet cleansed in a manner ineffable.
21. And he shall recall the simplicity of the Task of the Adeptus Minor, and apply himself thereto with fresh energy in a more direct manner.

You come through it aware, and pure of heart with a new passion to apply yourself knowing that you know nothing.

22. And in his great weakness it may be that for awhile the new Will and Aspiration are not puissant, yet being undisturbed by those dead weeds of doubt and reason which he hath uprooted, they grow imperceptibly and easily like a flower.

Will and Aspiration may not be enough, you have to keep to it or else doubt & differences will grow under the surface and suck you down.

23. And with the reappearance of the Holy Guardian Angel he may be granted the highest attainments, and be truly fitted for the full experience of the destruction of the Universe. And by the Universe We mean not that petty Universe which the mind of man can conceive, but that which is revealed to his soul in the Samadhi of Atmadarshana.

Through Will & HGA(self/ego), there is the destruction of the self past with the rebirth of the purer inner self.

24. Thence may he enter into a real communion with those that are beyond, and he shall be competent to receive communication and instruction from Ourselves directly.

Through the self, by the self, by the destruction & rebirth of the self, you are free to see & understand the bigger picture. Thus seeing what is/was always/already there. The look into the Abyss, it looks back idea.

25. Thus shall We prepare him for the confrontation of Choronzon and the Ordeal of the Abyss, when we have received him into the City of the Pyramids.

Understanding of death, emptyiness, eternity, and the raft ride through the reeds into the city.

26. So, being of Us, let the Master of the Temple accomplish that Work which is appointed. (In Liber CDXVIII. is an adequate account of this Ordeal and Reception. See also Liber CLVI. for the preparation.)

To Do, To Dare, To Will, To Silence.
CLVI :You must give up yourself, yet still have the drive & passion for the unknown knowledge of all Truths. There is no beginning, no end, no life, no death, no time. It is more than love, it is all Love. You Do what you Do for Love.
Love Under Will.
CDXVIII : The vision of the aethyers/planes, the voice of knowledge. The inner journey into everything already known and unknown. The acceptance that one still has much to learn, and crossing the abyss never ends. It is a choice.
"They have calle me the God of laughter, and I laugh when I will slay, and they have thought that I could not smile, but I smile upon whom I would seduce" - Choronzon


27. Also concerning the Reward thereof, of his entering into the Palace of the King's Daughter, and of that which shall thereafter befall, let it be understood of the Master of the Temple. Hath he not attained to Understanding? Yea, verily, hath he not attained to Understanding?

The reward is love within the all or no-thing. Just unconditional love and acceptance. What happens next is just the flow of understanding. Balance, knowledge, samdhai, translucenceof consciousness. Everything is the same yet not the same, chaos, balance, simple all of everything is everything yet nothing. Because there is no one Truth of Understanding.


Morgan

Courage Conquering Fear
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#10191 - 07/12/08 03:32 PM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: Morgan]
Engel08 Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
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Kinda makes you wonder if they read Crowley's work?
Or possibly these words, these ideas, are one of many universal themes.
What collective conscious? Or if that doesn't exist then at least something all beings have thought of.

I have yet to read any Crowley. It's been years since I've made any steps towards his stuff since banishing ritual.

Non Sequitor
When I was working on a book there was a reptilian bad guy and in another I felt like making Set-like villain but then I lost my ability to create a long long plot and thus ended my writing projects.


I like finding notes, old bookmarks and signatures in my books too.
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#10292 - 07/19/08 02:03 AM Re: You sometimes find the oddest things..... [Re: Engel08]
Morgan Offline
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I dont know if they read any of crowleys work, but maybe, who knows...

As to universal themes, I would say yes. Annie becomes Darth Vader due to Love. His Love and fear is so strong it consumes him. That is his will, his path. Lots of people do stupid things for Love, but its a choice they willingly make. Arthur and knights of the round table get undone by love. His wife betrays him with his best friend, thus bring about the end of an era and his eventual death.

Collective unconscious, not sure, jury still out.

Crowley is interesting. I wasn't ready/interested in his works for a long time, but somehow, over time things "fell into my hands" and made sense or fit with the information I was looking for. His book "White Stains" (poetry and who knows what else)is being rereleased in oct or nov.

Sometimes you just get a creative block on any given subject if you push too hard. I know I have. I haven't written a good porn story in about 6 or 7 years.

Those markings, I like cause it somehow links you to someone else who was looking for/at the same thing. I really like old or secondhand book stores for this reason. I need to go into Citylights in San Fran next time I am out there. Both times I passed by the shop, it was closed. \:\(

Morgan
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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