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#20159 - 02/11/09 01:44 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Gratikus]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Gratikus

I'm going to start a Satanic group here in Jersey, called “The Power of Satan,” who's focus is all about older Satanist mentoring younger Satanist. My ultimate dream is to one day attain enough money to build an above ground Satanic church, that is for both overt and covert modern Satanist.


I know this has pretty much run its course, but I recalled a quote by Dr. LaVey early in the history of The Church of Satan, regarding brick and mortar churches... some now feel that Satanism shouldn't really have them. In an early Cloven Hoof interview, LaVey said, "I visualize a day when tridents and pentagrams thrust into the sky from church roofs instead of crosses. I have a legacy to fulfill and it will be fulfilled."

Some see the grotto system as the fulfillment of this legacy, perhaps, but his statement's not restricted and I can recall no instance in which he ever said that building a church structure would be ill advised. So I would say that if one could do it, and had the financial resources to build that Satanic Church, go for it. Who knows. The times they are a changing.
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#20161 - 02/11/09 02:56 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Jake999]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
I share the same vision as LaVey did. Why should Satanist have to forever live in the shadows of the righteous? In fact, to take things even further, the smartest group of people I have ever met, pound for pound, are Modern Satanist. I couldn't think of a better group of people to openly rule the world, and dictate mankind's future. Hell, most of the other mainstream religions seem to be focused on the destruction of the world as an ultimate aim. So why should we accept them as the proper rulers of the Earth? Why should we teach future Satanist that it's proper to live in the shadows of those who openly preach the destruction of the Earth?

Edited by Gratikus (02/11/09 02:57 PM)

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#20162 - 02/11/09 03:28 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Gratikus]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
 Quote:
Why should Satanist have to forever live in the shadows of the righteous?


We don't atleast not anymore. If you take a look at how accepted Satanism is now compared to say Jake's time. I mean hell the military recognizes Satanism as a religion now. People are more apt to look at it for what it truely is.

Granted you still have the christian and catholic faiths preaching against it, but shit you have them preaching against everything.

There is also a difference between living in the shadows and not running around proclaiming "I am a satanist" to the world. Those who give off hints at being a satanist such as tattoos are only hinting enough so that those who know the truth in their meaning understand. I think there is much more power in the unknown then having everyone know the truth.
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Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#20163 - 02/11/09 03:41 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Dimitri]
Wovk76 Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 7
Loc: Italy
OH! You've reason! I didn't think no one can know the "Old Religion".
The "Old Religion" is the religion of the italian's witches.
It's seems Wicca but for some point of view isn't the same, for example doesn't have the Rede and the traditions are different.
For some point I can to compare the "Old Religion" with the thoughts of some satanist I've read and for this reason ( and also because I liked TSB ) I've interests of Satanism.
Both ( old religion and satanisms ) speak about evolution, I want to evolve I'm tired to be a slive of a unreal God, so I decided to follow not what I like or what I think is best suit for me but what I feel. I need to build my person.
So I want to study one and other and take in my knowledge after a good practice what I feel is good.
Because I'm in a moment with doubts. I need to really understand what I feel and what I really think to shape my religious-personality.
When I'll finished if I'll need to have a social-label I'll analyze my beliefs and determine if I'll be more satanist or 'strega' ( it means 'witch' in italian ).

You can read some about "Old Religion" at this website:

http://www.vecchiareligione.org ( also in english )


Edited by Wovk76 (02/11/09 03:42 PM)
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#20168 - 02/11/09 04:48 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Ringmaster]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Ringmaster
 Quote:
Why should Satanist have to forever live in the shadows of the righteous?


We don't atleast not anymore. If you take a look at how accepted Satanism is now compared to say Jake's time. I mean hell the military recognizes Satanism as a religion now. People are more apt to look at it for what it truely is.

Granted you still have the christian and catholic faiths preaching against it, but shit you have them preaching against everything.

There is also a difference between living in the shadows and not running around proclaiming "I am a satanist" to the world. Those who give off hints at being a satanist such as tattoos are only hinting enough so that those who know the truth in their meaning understand. I think there is much more power in the unknown then having everyone know the truth.


You know, the entire ideal of Satanism becoming an above ground Earth ruling religion presents a great paradox, I admit. Satanism can never be for the masses, and will always be an enemy of the masses. On the other hand, the masses can be controlled and manipulated, so it must be somehow technically possible for a future OVERT Satanist to rule them, and the world. I imagine that a future Satanic empire that rules the world would have to be something along the lines of Star Wars. The Satanist being, of course, the empire, and the righteous being the rebels.

What is needed for the masses is some sort of buffer religion between them and Satanism. This buffer religion would have to be Pagan like, and it would have to exault TRUE Satanist as Gods that are worthy of worship. American culture, with its worship of sex and violence, is close to being this buffer religion. We Satanist could not blossom in a barren righteous culture like..say...Iran.

The entire point of Satanism is that man is God, therefore Satanist should rule the Earth. Thus, the masses should one day worship Satanist as Gods. To me, this would be the ideal destiny of Satanism, and the ultimate paradise of our future descendants.

Hail Satan


Edited by Gratikus (02/11/09 04:52 PM)

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#20169 - 02/11/09 05:15 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Gratikus]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:
The entire point of Satanism is that man is God, therefore Satanist should rule the Earth. Thus, the masses should one day worship Satanist as Gods. To me, this would be the ideal destiny of Satanism, and the ultimate paradise of our future descendants.

I think you may be missing something here. The god of autotheism isn't the same concept as the 'gods' of other religions. Satanism does not exalt Satanists as 'gods', but rather that every man is his own 'god', meaning the author of his own fate. Satanism has no destiny but to be put to use by those who have the ability to weild it.

Satanism is a tool, not a cause.
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#20170 - 02/11/09 05:26 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Yep... you're getting off base. Satanists are gods unto themselves,,, simply means WE take control of our lives. The idea of being worshipped because we are Satanists is pretty incredulous, when you consider that it's the antithesis of what we believe in as our own call to personal power.

LaVey believed that the "lower masses" would indeed be controlled one day, but his dark vision of the future ran more along the lines of what you see in the movie BLADE RUNNER, or the power of Rotwang, in the Fritz Lang movie METROPOLIS.

Those who worship eventually rebel. Those who serve can be controlled economically and socially through stratification and ghettoization.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#20174 - 02/11/09 05:58 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Jake999]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
Well, it all depends on what a Satanist's particular ideal of "indulgence" is, and indulgence is the bottom line of Satanism. Some Satanist might find being worshiped as a God to be their highest indulgence, and some may not. My vision of a Satanic future is not something that all Satanist have to partake in, but rather it's a vision that other Satanist may share with me. Taking control of one's own life entails manipulating and or controlling people, and my vision is perfectly in line with that.
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#20175 - 02/11/09 06:16 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Gratikus]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

and indulgence is the bottom line of Satanism.

Is that what you really think? Am I wrong to assume you are relatively new to Satanism?

 Quote:

My vision of a Satanic future is not something that all Satanist have to partake in, but rather it's a vision that other Satanist may share with me.

The point you are missing here is that your envisioned 'future' has nothing to do with Satanism. Maybe you and a few of your megalomaniacal buddies may achieve the status of being worshipped, (But I wouldn't hold my breath!) but to desire that in and of itself has nothing to do with the philosophy of Satanism.

What Satanism is, and what Satanists do, are not interchangeable.
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#20176 - 02/11/09 06:24 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Fist]
Sanara Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 6
Hm? I'm not sure what he means but Do as you will.
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My heart is darknes like sorrow within.This why I only smile in the dark.

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#20180 - 02/11/09 06:39 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Jake999]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
I know this has pretty much run its course, but I recalled a quote by Dr. LaVey early in the history of The Church of Satan, regarding brick and mortar churches... some now feel that Satanism shouldn't really have them. In an early Cloven Hoof interview, LaVey said, "I visualize a day when tridents and pentagrams thrust into the sky from church roofs instead of crosses. I have a legacy to fulfill and it will be fulfilled."


It's the brick and mortar part that interests me. Thus I suggested to Gratikus he might endeavor to build a Satanic chapel, since he wishes to immortalize himself. It seems to me a permanent, stationary, public focal point, Satanically resonant in its architecture, landscaping, decor, and other attributes, in which silence is maintained at all times except when closed to the public, could serve as a portal by which the infernal domain might invade mass consciousness in a primal, sensual, animalistic way, creating new and unexpected opportunities for both lesser and greater magic.

The reason I stipulate silence is that I fear the baying of jackasses would detract from the original intent. When closed to the public, the chapel could of course be used for Satanic ritual, but only if, rather than fearing the ritual will be contaminated by past visitors' lingering taint, the practitioners instead take the goat by the horns and fully intend the ritual to "taint" future visitors.

Turn the Satanic Bible into a house.

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#20183 - 02/11/09 07:28 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Gratikus]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Gratikus
...Some Satanist might find being worshiped as a God to be their highest indulgence, and some may not. My vision of a Satanic future is not something that all Satanist have to partake in, but rather it's a vision that other Satanist may share with me.


Throughout history there have been individuals so charismatic that their followers have believed these individuals to be more than human and thus worthy of worship. I don't know you, so I can't comment on your ability to pull this off. If it's truly your goal, then you could try to increase your personal charisma via rituals of greater magic directed at yourself with a theme of majesty and perhaps terribleness - but I don't recommend it, as I suspect you would end up driving yourself insane, and spend the rest of your days in an asylum.

I will also make the obvious comment that anyone who worships another human being is an imbecile whose opinion of said human being is utterly useless as a measure of worth. Still, if the imbeciles sign over their property to you and let you fuck their teen-age daughters, I suppose there's something to be said for that.

To master the requisite lesser magic, I suppose you would want to study cult leaders like Jim Jones or Charles Manson or Sun Myung Moon. Two of those are, of course, cautionary tales.

I say smart is right and stupid is wrong. I don't acknowledge any other principle. If your intended path is smart, it will be recommended by prudence, realism, and practicality. Is it?

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#20196 - 02/11/09 08:26 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Zoid]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Gotta agree with you, Zoid.

While I might respect another human, there's no way that I could ever worship one, and those who might worship ME would be beneath contempt. The idea is about as un Satanic as I could ever come up with.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#20205 - 02/11/09 09:39 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
 Quote:

and indulgence is the bottom line of Satanism.

Is that what you really think? Am I wrong to assume you are relatively new to Satanism?

 Quote:

My vision of a Satanic future is not something that all Satanist have to partake in, but rather it's a vision that other Satanist may share with me.

The point you are missing here is that your envisioned 'future' has nothing to do with Satanism. Maybe you and a few of your megalomaniacal buddies may achieve the status of being worshipped, (But I wouldn't hold my breath!) but to desire that in and of itself has nothing to do with the philosophy of Satanism.

What Satanism is, and what Satanists do, are not interchangeable.


>>Is that what you really think? Am I wrong to assume you are relatively new to Satanism?<<

Satanic rule #1: Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!

Indulgence is not only the #1 rule of Satanism, but it is also relative for every Satanist. My ideal of indulgence is inspiring SOME future Satanist to be worshiped as Gods by the herd. I'm sorry you don't find any pleasure in such an agenda, but we can't all get off on the same things.

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#20206 - 02/11/09 09:41 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Jake999]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Gotta agree with you, Zoid.

While I might respect another human, there's no way that I could ever worship one, and those who might worship ME would be beneath contempt. The idea is about as un Satanic as I could ever come up with.


I think you misunderstand me. I never said OTHER Satanist should worship ANY other Satanist as Gods. I said the herd should. The herd will always be unSatanic.

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