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#20280 - 02/12/09 06:40 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Gratikus]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
According to LaVey, with the exception of harming children, a Satanist is free to indulge in whatever he likes, just as long as he takes FULL responsibility for his actions.


You say that as if he is the ultimate source of morals. You can't refer to LaVey for everything. Dwelling on one mans words and basing your entire outlook on life on another persons ideas is about as un satanic as you can get. What is most satanic is to do what YOU think is right, not to check the Satanic Bible to see if you're doing things the satanic way (if that is what you are implying).

As for speaking for other Satanists (another way to be un satanic), I have to agree with Dan. Satanists may think alike, but they don't think the same.


Edited by Mike (02/12/09 06:42 PM)
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#20287 - 02/12/09 11:11 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Dimitri]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Quote:
Beware of "Satanist" who seek to tear down all ideals, because they are really Nihilist and not Satanist. Satanism is the religion of fantasy and magic made real, which, in and of itself, IS IDEALISM IN ACTION.

Nihilist is used to often and within your text a bit bad chosen.
I take down ideals also, does that make me a nihilist? No, because I view things objective and am just pointing out inconsistencies, impossibilities and mistakes. Ideals can be used to achieve things, but nihilistic thinking makes it possible you are not floating in your fantasy and to keep things real.

Satanism to me isn't "fantasy and magic made real". Satanism is about admitting your mistakes and try to solve them, it is about personal development. It also is about you admitting you have desires and the need to fulfill them. The magic part is only psychological help, if knowledge fails and/or for other reasons. In short: admitting you also are "just an animal with needs" with also the strong will to be the greatest in your surroundings. Satanism is about you being the alfa male/female.


>>Nihilist is used to often and within your text a bit bad chosen.
I take down ideals also, does that make me a nihilist? No, because I view things objective and am just pointing out inconsistencies, impossibilities and mistakes. Ideals can be used to achieve things, but nihilistic thinking makes it possible you are not floating in your fantasy and to keep things real. <<

I use the word Nihilist in the same manner as Nietzsche.

>>Satanism to me isn't "fantasy and magic made real". Satanism is about admitting your mistakes and try to solve them, it is about personal development. It also is about you admitting you have desires and the need to fulfill them. The magic part is only psychological help, if knowledge fails and/or for other reasons. In short: admitting you also are "just an animal with needs" with also the strong will to be the greatest in your surroundings. Satanism is about you being the alfa male/female. <<

Satanism are these things that you describe, but there is also an aspect of bringing fantasy to life within Satanism. Naturally, every Satanist takes from Satanism different things, but no mistake about it, fantasy fulfillment is a big part of Satanism.

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#20288 - 02/12/09 11:13 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
>>Do you really believe that people that do 'great' things do so to be idolized? A premeditated plan to gain acclaim? I think that is quite a naive outlook on things. I notice you didn't give any examples.
I don't think there would be very many. <<

Try researching the purposes of ancient monuments to pharaohs, kings and emperors. This probably will clarify some of your confusion on the matter.


>>I think each of these offered bald faced assertions are bullshit for various reasons. I'd explain why but then again you didn't offer up any support for these assertions, so why should I? <<

What is “idealism” to you? That is, after all, the original disagreement in our discussion. Please explain your view on idealism and why you are opposed to it.

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#20289 - 02/12/09 11:15 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Mike]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Mike
 Quote:
According to LaVey, with the exception of harming children, a Satanist is free to indulge in whatever he likes, just as long as he takes FULL responsibility for his actions.


You say that as if he is the ultimate source of morals. You can't refer to LaVey for everything. Dwelling on one mans words and basing your entire outlook on life on another persons ideas is about as un satanic as you can get. What is most satanic is to do what YOU think is right, not to check the Satanic Bible to see if you're doing things the satanic way (if that is what you are implying).


Actually, I find the Satanic Bible to be poorly written and organized. Nietzsche is my favorite philosopher, not LaVey. In fact, if you ask me, a Satanist is based upon Nietzsche's ideal of an Overman. I was only using LaVey's stance as an example.

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#20292 - 02/12/09 11:41 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Gratikus]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
If you knew anything about TSB you would know that LaVey technically didn't write it. Much of TSB is a direct word for word transcription of Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard. Satanic philosophy incorporates much of those ideas and is also influenced by the writings of Ayn Rand, Nietzsche and a myriad of others.
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#20293 - 02/12/09 11:56 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Gratikus]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3882
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

Try researching the purposes of ancient monuments to pharaohs, kings and emperors. This probably will clarify some of your confusion on the matter.

Now you are just being disingenuous. You said:

"Some of the greatest and most Satanic men in history have wanted to be idolized by the herd, and they accomplished more than anyone hear could dream of."

Now how can kings and pharaohs, who were such by birthright and not by their own deeds, qualify? Anyone could accomplish things with an entire nation of servants at their beck and call. I guess you define 'great' and 'Satanic' differently than I do, because my definitions involve personal accomplishment and merit based on ability, not birthright.

 Quote:

What is “idealism” to you? That is, after all, the original disagreement in our discussion. Please explain your view on idealism and why you are opposed to it.

Where did you get the notion that I am defacto opposed to idealism wholesale? Because I made that one comment about your delusions of grandeur being an idealistic pipedream?
Bit of a jump there eh?
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#20295 - 02/13/09 12:12 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Gratikus]
Paul Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 38
Loc: Debyshire, England
"Try researching the purposes of ancient monuments to pharaohs, kings and emperors. This probably will clarify some of your confusion on the matter."

I, for one, still think you've got it the wrong way round. These monuments were TO someone. Or a commemoration or reminder of a great event or victory. The pyramids were most probably a way of guaranteeing an afterlife and were ENABLED by greatness not the precursor of greatness.

As for Gods. When a Satanist states they are their own God they are usurping that place the herd reserve within themselves for God. We do not (well I don't) intend to replace this idea of GOD with ourselves. So a true Satanist removes any possibility of worship, of themselves or anyone else. Satanism makes you a great individual but Greatness in the broader sense is a whole different ballgame.

What you're talking about is politics and to wield the sort of power you're talking about, you're not talking about worship but fear. (remember:- you can't fool all of the people all of the time!)

That sort of fear, other than the Third Reich, hasn't existed since the dark ages. In fact politics aren't really up to the job. I think you're half way to instigating a military coupe.

But let's face it, you can't even convince us and we're of reasonably like mind. So how are you going to maintain control of the masses.

And as for “The Power of Satan”, I'm sorry but I can't see this going further than a mutual ego masturbating circle. megalomaniacsRus.org?
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#20309 - 02/13/09 07:51 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Paul]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
"I visualize a day when tridents and pentagrams thrust into the sky from church roofs instead of crosses. I have a legacy to fulfill and it will be fulfilled." LaVey

A Satanist can choose to create his own legacy from scratch, have no legacy at all or be a part of someone else's legacy.

It would only take a Satanist who is well versed in microbiology to invent a disease in which only he has a cure to make LaVey's legacy complete.

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#20311 - 02/13/09 10:46 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Gratikus]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Now that's just plain dumb.

You can not create a disease/virus based upon how people think.

You can create one that kills everyone, or targets areas, or has a short life/death cycle. Possibly one created to act upon certain genes, but one that acts upon how people think in regards to religion, now you really are stupid.

Morgan
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Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#20315 - 02/13/09 11:42 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Morgan]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
This is the problem when people with very little understanding decide that they can simply do whatever the hell they want to do based on the words of a book.

A thumper is a thumper is a thumper, regardless of what bible they thump. LaVey would be sending out a special membership card, possibly with the a special degree of whatever is about as close as you can come in Enochian to "Creep."

This kind of crap is the reason people look at Satanists and think "creep."

Damn... I'm glad we have an ignore setting.
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#20316 - 02/13/09 12:00 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Morgan]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
You can not create a disease/virus based upon how people think.

Actually Morgan, you can.
I like to call it religion.
You only need to have a good understanding of the human behaviour, make up some rules with a catchy easy remembering tune. Some promises, a fantasy story where you can relate things too and voila. A new "virus" has been created to enrich you and make people mentally ill.

@Gratikus:
[/quote]Satanism are these things that you describe, but there is also an aspect of bringing fantasy to life within Satanism. Naturally, every Satanist takes from Satanism different things, but no mistake about it, fantasy fulfillment is a big part of Satanism. [/quote]
Give me an example from what you call "fantasy fulfillment".
Fantasy remains fantasy, some thing MIGHT come true in some modified way or another, but being truely fulfilled.. nope.


Edited by Dimitri (02/13/09 12:03 PM)
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#20323 - 02/13/09 04:17 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Dimitri]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Dimitri, really now...

Hes talking about killing people with a designer type drug, not a philosophy.



An example of what you are talking about is scientology.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#20324 - 02/13/09 04:52 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Gratikus]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
I think you mean poorly written and unorganized. Sure Nietzsche's ideas overlap Satanism, but Satanism as it exists today was the gathering of ideas from many philosophers, much like any philosophy.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#20349 - 02/14/09 04:13 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Mike]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
Hes talking about killing people with a designer type drug, not a philosophy.

Well, it isn't impossible...
We CAN make a new type of drug but..
You need to have advanced software for simulations, a few thousands of rats/mouses, a big dictionnary for biology and expensive material to do genetic modifications on microscopic level... once gathered only thing to do is research and specifications for what you want..
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#20350 - 02/14/09 04:20 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
But surely it is much easier to design a drug and eliminate a specific group. Think Meth.

D.

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