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#24647 - 05/16/09 01:30 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Asmodevs]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
While I do enjoy some parts of the zeitgeist movement, even when they have been done before, I do think that the whole movement is based upon some fuzzy ideas. Fundamentally it is a movement that upholds egalitarian premises and prefers to think that all the wrongs of the world are nothing but a matter of culture. When changing the culture, humans will be changed accordingly.

While culture is a selective organism when it comes to humans, -with that implying that advantages to a certain culture will be selected for- and thus humans will reflect -genetically- certain traits according to their culture, I do think human nature is playing a bigger role in the whole. I do not support the zeitgeist idea that humans are born with an almost blank slate, adding "almost" as some vague escape route in case science would provide evidence for certain ideas to be wrong.

Humans are not born with a blank slate and it is not only instinct that is hardwired in us. Science is close to opening this car on worms and it will be looked upon as even more horrifying than the old race-IQ debates. Expect that can of worms to be opened within the next decade.

Basically, even when enjoying some parts of their attempted change out there, I do think it is some sort of fluffy movement, 21th century hippie thinking. At some levels I do hope they can change the world, if not only because it would be the perfect soil for the dominant to step in and claim their birthright.

The French revolution paved the path for Napoleon. I can only imagine who the zeitgeist revolution will pave the path for.

All I can do is applaud and say; "Bravo, continue the good work".

D.

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#24681 - 05/16/09 04:18 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Diavolo]
Asmodevs Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 21
Personally, I won't knock it until I try it. Because that would be the scientific thing to do. I feel he presents a decent argument and we really don't know what will actually happen until we actually try it... even on a small scale experimental basis. This would provide proof for or against any other hypothesis or conjecture we would have to dismiss or support his claims.
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#24706 - 05/17/09 12:31 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Asmodevs]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Maybe if all males professed the old greek tradition of pure manlove, the world would change for the better, greenhouse gas would disappear and all the extinct animals would come back to life. We could easily dismiss this theory but would we really know what happens if we didn't try? After all, we should do the scientific thing.

You see how easily you call something scientific?

D.

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#24708 - 05/17/09 01:12 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Diavolo]
Asmodevs Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 21
I sense that, with such a smart ass reply, your ego feels threatened or belittled in some way.

Shall we swab the decks with a bout of 'who has the most testosterone?' Loser buys drinks afterwords.

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#24709 - 05/17/09 01:19 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Asmodevs]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
If you already think this was smart ass, you would have been amazed when I would have put real effort in my reply.

No seriously, where did you get the impression that every theory becomes valuable because it can be tested?

I assumed you didn't deal or had any interest in truth, as you have mentioned before? Maybe you rediscovered another religion?

D.

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#24718 - 05/17/09 04:14 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Diavolo]
Asmodevs Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 21
true. I'm replacing my need for religion with scientific thought and philosophy... which we could consider as another form of religion depending on our perspectives and definitions of 'religion.'

It just so happens that I see Satanism as somewhat scientific. And the more I research the more I find that science holds a more plausible basis for what I define as 'truth' because it actually produces results. So, this is how I'm relating to Satanism... which I also see as somewhat parallel to Naturalism.

Science has separated itself from religious thought. But I'm finding that there is a doorway back to religion through the study of Naturalism... and the first thing I recognize through that doorway is Satanism.

I'm aware that I'm still naive of quite a bit; I still have quite a way to go before I grasp anything. But I would like to *recommend* to any Satanist to try giving Rand and Nietzsche a break for awhile and dabble in Naturalism. Pick and choose what feels right for you... but keep looking. I swear there's something going on there though I can't quite put my finger on it. Something very primal.

but uhh... WTF do I know, heh?

I'm just another noob

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#24722 - 05/17/09 11:46 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Asmodevs]
Diavolo Offline
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stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem with Zeitgeist is not that it is not entirely scientific or philosophical but that it has the same religious tendencies that Christianity has. One of the ideas that make Christianity rather laughable is the concept of sin. It is sin that makes the human corrupt and instead of seeing the sin as what it is; an essential part of our genetic makeup, it prefers to blame sin on the devil. Humans are fine and perfect, after all they are created in god's image, but it is the devil that gives them bad options and it is their freedom to choose what makes them consider those bad options. But they do not choose, they are tempted, deluded. Humans can’t consciously decide to do those things considered bad by the religious, they cannot enjoy those choices. There has to be some other reason for them doing it and if we only can remove this reason, they all become as preferred; perfect, in god's image shaped all-loving drones.

And that religious tendency also creeps into Zeitgeist. It's not only in Zeitgeist. The tendency to blame by proxy has infested our Western thinking deeply. It is much easier to try and identify a sole reason for all the things going wrong -the state, society, race, culture, money, drugs, capitalism…- and deluding oneself to think that if only those things are removed, at the same time, all the problems are removed. Because one can NOT blame humanity itself. For it is they that are perfect. And this, exactly this, is where it all clashes with Satanism. Responsibility to the responsible. Humans are not perfect and they don't always make the right or good choices –from a moralistic point of view- and worst of all, they often do enjoy doing pretty bad things. And at no point, changing an aspect of reality will at the same time change all humans, or change their tendency to make choices that are not in line with the preferred thinking. The only manner to have humans behave as one prefers is by whip, chain and cage. And even that only works as long as you don't turn your back onto them. So all movements that try to eradicate a problem and in that save humanity, I accuse of being deeply religious to begin with. Get rid of society, drugs, the state, money, culture or whatever you can think of and nothing really changes. I will still sell my daughter for my next fix, bash your skull for your boots or utterly dominate or kill you for the fact that you might have a big nose. That is what we are, and what some consider a source to blame, we consider nothing but an option to use.

In the end, metaphorically speaking of course, we are shaped in the devil's image. God always fought a lost battle.

D.

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#24724 - 05/17/09 01:34 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Asmodevs]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
It just so happens that I see Satanism as somewhat scientific. And the more I research the more I find that science holds a more plausible basis for what I define as 'truth' because it actually produces results.

Satanism is not scientifique. It uses science.. and to be more exactly: the Satanist uses science as a tool to get his points across. To make his arguments valid, as a firm base to make his life more easy and to get things straight.

Science is not a lifestyle nor a philosophy, nor is it something dogmatic. Science just IS, it studies/observes, it makes models,.. it tries to understand things based on facts. Satanism uses science as a tool but leaves place for philosophycal thinking. Ofcourse is science a more plausible basis for "truth".. it studies the facts. Anyone claiming otherwise is just simple-minded..

 Quote:
Science has separated itself from religious thought.

Science and religion co-exist with each other since the beginning of time. What science can't show is being filled up by religion. Religion provides inconsistencies for scientists to explore/investigate. Religion is lack of knowledge about the universe/earth/nature/psychology/... while science does the investigation and tries to give an answer on the raised questionmarks..

 Quote:
Pick and choose what feels right for you... but keep looking. I swear there's something going on there though I can't quite put my finger on it. Something very primal.

Scratching my balls is also primal...
Pick and choose? That's a christian mentality and is the most WORSE piece of advice you can give. Pick and choose includes ripping things out of their context. Ripping things out of their context implies false statements, loss of information, false conclusions and so on.
I don't pick and choose, if I'd do that I wouldn't have known as much as I do know.


Edited by Dimitri (05/17/09 01:35 PM)
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#24725 - 05/17/09 01:49 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Diavolo]
Asmodevs Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 21
I suppose I'm not seeing where we have a choice. Essentially, the entire world owes itself money. If and when the economy crashes in a couple years we'll see what each of us decides to do about this apparent issue. Satanists can go live in the woods and feel a better sense of strength and humanity about themselves for bashing each others skulls in for boots and big noses. And if Zeitgeist gets off the ground I'll go be a weak mindless drone with all the boots I want... because they're free. If you want my used boots... take them. I'll just go get a new pair. Or not wear any at all since I don't have to work. I'll probably run scared shitless from you... until I get to the mag-lev station. Where I'll take the train to Tokyo for an extended lunch with some Japanese girls who like Bukaki and ATM.

Otherwise, we'll all fight and argue for boots until there's 1 man left who has ALL the boots.

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#24727 - 05/17/09 01:57 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Asmodevs]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
If you run out of arguments or can't counter some opinions, don't try to reply trivial stuff.
Ignorance can be excused but stupidity or a lack of effort is not that excusable. After all, you did enter a satanic site. You don't need to live up to the requirements here, you can just as easily not say a thing at all. After all, choice is provided even here.

D.

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#24728 - 05/17/09 02:36 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Diavolo]
Asmodevs Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 21
that is my counter.

If everything you need is available to you without a cost. What reason would you have to take my stuff? So, take it. No sweat. I'll just go get more. Because there's no scarcity.

If you don't like my big nose... let me know. I'll remove myself from your line of sight. It won't be a financial hassle to do so. No gas... no worries of going to another bar and purchasing another drink. It's all free.

If you want to take over my residence... cool. I can go to Tokyo, or Russia... or anywhere else I want. I have no attachments there. Take it all. I can always get more or go somewhere else.

If you want to kill me... lets hope that I didn't spend all the time I could have been working for stuff that doesn't cost anything... training in martial arts for 10 years.

I just don't see the motives for such actions.

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#24729 - 05/17/09 02:40 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Asmodevs]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
So you really think that when you put the mother of all egalitarian doctrines -communism- in a new dress you get a theory that is considered as not trivial and should be regarded as the result of serious thinking or even a potentially successful solution?

Watching fight club three times and then encountering fuzzy logic movements does not make a philosopher.

I better end this debate, horses and water.

D.

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#24730 - 05/17/09 02:41 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Asmodevs]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
Asmodevs...
 Quote:
If you want to kill me... lets hope that I didn't spend all the time I could have been working for stuff that doesn't cost anything... training in martial arts for 10 years.

Martial arts is nothing when I fire a big gun your way.. no kung-fu/shao-lin/karate/boxing/.. move will stop the bullet.

Read and reread what Diavolo said. Don't be an idiot and simply admit you were stupid.
You can always leave if you want, to me you clearly don't fit in and will only get your ego hurt.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#24731 - 05/17/09 03:00 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Dimitri]
Asmodevs Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 21
maybe I have the best bullet proof vest available.. including helmet. It is all free.

or maybe I just accept death. No big deal. There's nothing after this life, right? So, there's nothing to fear.

you know... we could stop all this bickering and shit talking and you could just come to Minneapolis with your gun and blow me away. Or we could fist fight and see who ends up with a hurt ego. That is the ultimate measure, right?

You'd probably win, too.

Can we arrange this?

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#24732 - 05/17/09 03:08 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Asmodevs]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
or maybe I just accept death. No big deal. There's nothing after this life, right? So, there's nothing to fear.

Please.; accept it, end your life as fast as you can. I simply don't care.

 Quote:
you know... we could stop all this bickering and shit talking and you could just come to Minneapolis with your gun and blow me away. Or we could fist fight and see who ends up with a hurt ego. That is the ultimate measure, right?

You just showed your real face i.e that of a 16 year old child acting tough behind a computer. Fuck it, get an attitude.

slight hint: http://www.the600club.com/topic24552-1.html
You are getting close..


Edited by Dimitri (05/17/09 03:11 PM)
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