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#94621 - 12/04/14 10:52 AM More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf
SIN3 Offline
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The Messed Up Way People Talk About Shia LaBeouf's Rape

#IAMSORRY

 Quote:
For the unaware: LaBeouf shared the story of his alleged rape in a recently published interview with Dazed’s Aimee Cliff:

"One woman who came with her boyfriend, who was outside the door when this happened, whipped my legs for ten minutes and then stripped my clothing and proceeded to rape me … There were hundreds of people in line when she walked out with dishevelled hair and smudged lipstick. It was no good, not just for me but her man as well. On top of that my girl was in line to see me, because it was Valentine’s Day and I was living in the gallery for the duration of the event—we were separated for five days, no communication. So it really hurt her as well, as I guess the news of it travelled through the line. When she came in she asked for an explanation, and I couldn’t speak, so we both sat with this unexplained trauma silently. It was painful."




Publicity Stunt?

It re-opens the dialogue about whether or not Men can actually be raped.

What say you?
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#94633 - 12/04/14 01:17 PM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: SIN3]
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Sure men can be raped..by other men..or with foreign objects. But sex sex? Not a chance.
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#94634 - 12/04/14 01:35 PM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: Dan_Dread]
XiaoGui17 Online
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If physical arousal is considered consent, no, because an erection is the sine qua non of sex. If physical arousal is not enough, what else is required? Conscious agreement, at least.

True fax: I know a guy who was passed out cold when a woman he hardly knew hopped on and helped herself. Most people would consider that rape if the genders were reversed. But hey, he had an erection, he was asking for it.

The really fucked up thing, though? He'd still be on the hook for child support.
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#94637 - 12/04/14 02:52 PM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: XiaoGui17]
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Maybe with enough rohypnol and Viagra, but not while the man is conscious, and actively resisting.

I find it more likely your friend prefers you to believe he wasn't cooperating than the idea he got a magical sustained sleep erection and didn't wake up right away.
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#94640 - 12/04/14 03:13 PM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
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 Quote:
Publicity Stunt?


And what else could that be? The guy didn't try to scream or defend himself. He didn't call the police, probably because the cops would laugh at him.
Guys raped by chicks. What world do we live in?!
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#94658 - 12/05/14 09:30 AM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: Czereda]
Megatron Offline
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XG, I seem to remember you arguing against me what you're conferring with DD on. It might have even been here. A man cannot be raped by a woman (without invasive butt-toys). Gets hard = you (as a man) want it.

No, that WAS you. And I'm pretty sure it was here (if not, YT). Because you mentioned Lehi and all kinds of shit else that only belongs to your person.

But just in case I had a happy set of fungi, I'll ask you what you think: Is it possible for a woman to rape a man without any tools (other than her own body)?


Edited by Megatron (12/05/14 09:32 AM)
Edit Reason: supersonic
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#94661 - 12/05/14 11:55 AM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: Megatron]
SIN3 Offline
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A male associate of mine is adamant that he's been raped. He considers any sexual act without consent, rape. Don't women use the same logic when they argue in favor of 'Rape Culture'? Take for instance the case of Bill Cosby. Years later, women are crawling out of the woodwork to claim that he took liberties with them without their consent. It doesn't appear to require intercourse.

Example given by my associate:

Male is asleep, live-in girlfriend decides that a blow-job would be just the thing! He wakes up in the middle of it irate, "YOU RAPED ME!" Even if he was aroused to erection while he was asleep, he did not consent to having his penis violated.

In the case of Shia here, based on his description the woman also whipped him before violating his person. Even if we side with the publicity stunt angle, by the letter of the law he was sexually assaulted. Was he not? Why didn't he report it right away?

Rape is allegedly one of the least reported crimes in the U.S., is it because of the physical nature? Embarrassment? So-called Victim Blaming? Fear of being a spectacle during a criminal trial?

The Accused film comes to mind.

It's also assumed that the Rape in question is only conducted by a woman, when there are plenty of cases of men raping other men. Then there's the matter of Women taking advantage of younger men (Minors). Even if biologically a male is mature, the Letter of the Law decides whether that young man can consent. The older woman is considered a predator and often prosecuted for statutory rape even it both parties claim the act was consensual.

So who decides what rape is whether it's a legal rape or a metaphorical rape? Law or the individual?

If Shia says he was raped, why don't we believe him?





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#94686 - 12/07/14 05:14 AM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: SIN3]
Megatron Offline
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More men are raped in the US than women. Just because of our backwards prison system.

I'm not arguing that a man cannot be raped, just not by a woman. Blowjobs inclusive (which is technically sodomy).

Shia LePoop abdicated his consent out when he agreed to consent to any act within that room. He gave consent beforehand without maybe thinking it through. A random chick blew him off, and he's fucking complaining?

Maybe next time he won't sit himself blindfolded in a room with a whip and ask for laissez faire treatment. He's lucky he got his dick sucked and not his face broken.

Art exhibit or masochistic experiment?

Remember, we're talking about ladiesman217
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#94688 - 12/07/14 12:54 PM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: Megatron]
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 Quote:
Shia LePoop abdicated his consent out when he agreed to consent to any act within that room. He gave consent beforehand without maybe thinking it through. A random chick blew him off, and he's fucking complaining?


So you don't believe him because as a man, he should be pounding his chest over a blow-job and whipping? That if he consented ahead of time to *any* act, that does mean ANY?

If say the tables were turned and it was a woman in that chair and she was whipped then licked without her explicit consent - it's not rape either?

If it's an art project, perhaps this is part of the theater: "Behold! The Den of Inequity!"
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#94690 - 12/07/14 02:12 PM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
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 Quote:
If say the tables were turned and it was a woman in that chair and she was whipped then licked without her explicit consent - it's not rape either?


Theoretically, it is but during a trial many things are taken into account. I'm not sure how it is here but in Poland the court takes into consideration how the victim behaved before, during and after the crime. For example, did she do anything to provoke the perpetrator? Did she flirt with him? Was she dressed in a provocative manner, like without her bras and so on? Did she drink too much while she was in the perpetrator's company? Did she take drugs? Did she try to defend herself while she was raped? Did she scream? Did she try to fight? And afterwards, did she she go immediately to the police? The outcome of the trial will depend upon the answers to these questions.

Now, let's see what we have here. The guy was whipped with his own whip that he put on the table. He put himself at the visitors' mercy. He didn't take any necessary precautions to ensure his safety. He didn't defend himself. He didn't scream. He didn't call the cops afterwards. How can anyone believe him he was raped?


Edited by Czereda (12/07/14 02:14 PM)
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#94714 - 12/08/14 12:03 PM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: Czereda]
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It doesn't quite work that way here. While evidence is collected to determine the circumstances that led to a Rape, victim blaming has fallen out of favor (hence the clip of the Jody Foster film I provided).

 Quote:
The guy was whipped with his own whip that he put on the table. He put himself at the visitors' mercy. He didn't take any necessary precautions to ensure his safety. He didn't defend himself. He didn't scream. He didn't call the cops afterwards. How can anyone believe him he was raped?


Theoretically, let's say it's an undeniable fact that he was in fact raped and still no one believes him. Is it because he's male? Or because of the conditions he set on his art exhibit? Does this open it wide up to an unsolicited blow-job and painful whipping?

Whether he took precautions or not shouldn't matter. That would be like saying you didn't wear a bullet-proof vest every day to avoid being shot.

 Quote:
He didn't take any necessary precautions to ensure his safety. He didn't defend himself. He didn't scream. He didn't call the cops afterwards. How can anyone believe him he was raped?


It's certainly suspect. It leads me to believe that it may be part of the underlying message of #IAMSORRY.

Don't Murder the Artist :

 Quote:
A media storm erupted as cynicism about contemporary art and celebrity culture collided with stereotypes about sexual assault; columnists, bloggers and social media users clashed over whether the alleged crime was a publicity stunt or part of the performance art. The revelation came in a Dazed interview with the 28-year-old Transformers star, which was also staged as a performance called #INTERVIEW; after exchanging emails, LaBeouf and the writer Aimee Cliff met in person and sat face-to-face in silence for an hour, filming each other with GoPro cameras strapped to their heads.

Over the past year, LaBeouf’s entire life has seemed like it might be an act. His increasingly erratic behaviour has rarely been out of the gossip columns – from walking out of press conferences to getting arrested for slapping fellow theatregoers during a Broadway performance of Cabaret. But at the same time, the actor has attempted to subvert his public image through a series of performance art pieces that play on his very public problems, and it’s never been clear where reality ends and the performance begins. In February, he began a project called #IAMSORRY, during which the alleged assault occurred, in which hundreds of people queued outside a Los Angeles gallery for a one-to-one encounter with him.


People are trying to figure out this guy's angle. Either he's lost it, or he's got something to prove.

As an aside: Victim Culture is a new 'trendy' term being used in propaganda articles to re-kindle the victim blaming tactic.
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#94719 - 12/08/14 03:28 PM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
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 Quote:
victim blaming has fallen out of favor


I didn't really mean victim blaming but determining the facts. It doesn't often happen that the rape is conducted in public with a crowd of people watching and these people can be potential witnesses. Say, you have two people at the court: one claims she was raped, another one claims they had a consensual sex. Now, who's telling the truth? The circumstances I was writing about in the previous post will determine the outcome of the trial. This is why the organizations that help rape victims advice women that in case of rape they should immediately go to the police and get the medical examination, because it's still common, especially for women living in rural areas, to go home and wash themselves first.

 Quote:
Theoretically, let's say it's an undeniable fact that he was in fact raped and still no one believes him. Is it because he's male? Or because of the conditions he set on his art exhibit? Does this open it wide up to an unsolicited blow-job and painful whipping?


The line between rape and consensual sex is often very thin. It's easier to believe a woman because it's usually women who are victims of rape and they are physically weaker than men. The question whether the victim defends herself/himself is crucial. If there is no evidence of fight, then the lack of consent is hard to prove. In my opinion, the guy is playing the victim card to get some free publicity.
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#94722 - 12/08/14 05:02 PM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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 Quote:
I didn't really mean victim blaming but determining the facts.


That's the thing. On the road to determining facts, looking at the victim and their behavior leading to a rape (or alleged rape) often puts the events under scrutiny which leads to blame.

In this case, Shia will be blamed for:

1. Not making the art exhibit clear (rules of engagement).
2. Assuming people wouldn't violate him sexually
3. Putting a whip into the hands of his assailant
4. Attention seeking
5. Making false allegations


 Quote:
This is why the organizations that help rape victims advice women that in case of rape they should immediately go to the police and get the medical examination, because it's still common, especially for women living in rural areas, to go home and wash themselves first.


It's just advice. Women also know that thousands of rape kits go untested each year. The Police Dept. is inundated with cases, there's plenty of instances of an expose on untested rape kits. Plus, the victim feels further humiliated by being poked and prodded by a doctor while being questioned by law enforcement (having to relive the act). It's just a contributing factor to unreported rape statistics.

Even with Shia's collaborators, most people don't believe he was violated, never-mind raped.

According to the article, the woman was stopped in the middle of her actions, but I guess it wasn't enough for them to pursue prosecution. She just ran off and they let her. Whipping him for 10 minutes straight? What are these guys Sadists? I mean srsly... Any Kinksters in the house? A 10 minute whipping would definitely leave marks. I suppose it also depends on how hard she was hitting him.

I wonder if the crowd understood what was going on, and if they thought for a second that he was not enjoying it, would they have stopped her from running away? Would a mob ensue calling her a rapist? So again, if it is to evoke controversy, it just highlights a double-standard for men vs. women.

 Quote:
There was a fair amount of backlash online immediately following LaBeouf’s rape claim, with many people questioning the validity of the attack. Piers Morgan, in particular, has publicly lashed out at the actor, tweeting on Friday that LaBeouf was “pathetic” and his statement “demeans real rape victims.”


If Piers Morgan understood that Shia did not consent to the Blow-job, do you think he'd change his mind about Shia being a REAL rape victim? I doubt it.
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#94801 - 12/13/14 04:27 PM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: Megatron]
XiaoGui17 Online
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 Originally Posted By: Megatron
More men are raped in the US than women. Just because of our backwards prison system.

Most prison-buggery is consensual, according to both ex-cons and prison guards who have commented on the matter. It turns out men can get awful lonely for 10 years at a stretch. If one is a puny or pretty guy, he's likely to get his ass kicked by people trying to prove they're too tough to fuck with, and sometimes giving head to a big guy who protects him is a lesser evil than having some other big guy pummel him to establish his place in the pecking order.
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#94802 - 12/13/14 04:38 PM Re: More than meets the eye: Shia LeBeouf [Re: Dan_Dread]
XiaoGui17 Online
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 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Maybe with enough rohypnol and Viagra...

In this case, neither. Just a fuck-ton of tequila.

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
I find it more likely your friend prefers you to believe he wasn't cooperating than the idea he got a magical sustained sleep erection and didn't wake up right away.

This is to hear her tell it, not him. (He has no recollection of it.) She was essentially teasing him for not waking up. She thought it was funny. He lost the erection after a couple minutes, and didn't finish. But again, sexes reversed, that wouldn't disqualify it from being rape.
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