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#95969 - 01/21/15 09:20 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: Naama]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Naama
sex would be really That dangerous, I would not be sitting here typing all that, considering amount of times I've done that.


It was just an example in lieu of STD's like HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis, and HPV among others. The point is, in spite of knowledge, reasoning can rationalize just about anything - just as you have done.



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#95970 - 01/21/15 09:50 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Quote:
The point is, in spite of knowledge, reasoning can rationalize just about anything


I don't disagree with that shit either, BUT - that I would add to that that it's not, like, just two people in the car grasping at the wheel - reason and knowledge - it's upwards of 8 of them (maybe 9, but there's nothing special about that number anyway unless you count in decimal - I vaguely remember being over this shit before somewhere here)

1+8 = 9. 1+E = F. For the same reasons.

18 is divisible 9. 1E is divisible by F. Columns of multiples of 9 add up to 9. Columns of multiples of F add up to F.

Whatever the maximum "squiggle" you can fit into a column without over-flowing holds the VERY same properties of 9. It even works in octal... decimal and even binary too... but... errr... that's binary, so fuck it - flip a coin \:\/

*simmers down

what I'm driving at is that reason, in and of itself, is as much the be-all / end-all of motivations as 9 is somehow this magical number... which is to say "it ain't".

It has properties within a system of digits in as much as reason has properties within a system of psyche.

*which, at this point, I'm not even 100% sure we or anyone else is debating.


Edited by antikarmatomic (01/21/15 09:59 PM)
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#95972 - 01/21/15 10:03 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Czereda
How is it possible that all the knowledge, instead of making some people wiser, makes them more ignorant?


I offered that Reasoning makes this possible, in spite of insight.

It's not as if Naama isn't aware of STD's, or that other variables don't weigh in decisions. She prefers (see what I did there) to have "real life" experience vs. pseudo-experience. If she happens to catch AIDS and die, well - fuck it- at least she lived.
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#117629 - 12/04/18 03:58 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 459
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
How is it possible that all the knowledge, instead of making some people wiser, makes them more ignorant?


I offered that Reasoning makes this possible, in spite of insight.

It's not as if Naama isn't aware of STD's, or that other variables don't weigh in decisions. She prefers (see what I did there) to have "real life" experience vs. pseudo-experience. If she happens to catch AIDS and die, well - fuck it- at least she lived.



This thread is fascinating. And yes, it is three years old, going on four, but it does strike me as interesting.

I don't know how other people experience wisdom, but here is my first precept in my experience for what wisdom means for me.

The goal for wisdom in my experience is an unfiltered look at the world around me, in such a way, that I can accept myself with self-love and dignity. To be free to love, and experience life unfettered to maximum potential that ultimately becomes harmonious in the world on my terms.

The amount of wisdom possible in an individual is directly contingent on how powerful that individual is.

If that individual is less powerful, that individual will be willing to accept lesser degrees of truth to penetrate their soul. The more powerful an individual, then the more that soul will allow the world as it is to enter their purest being because their soul will have the power to reshape that reality in some fashion. If that soul is unable, then it will disallow that truth to enter their soulful fabric.

If a soul is willing and able to allow the world as it is to enter itself without being destroyed or oppressed, then that is pure wisdom made possible by limitless soulful power.

Wisdom will allow itself to experiment with foolish decisions because the soul of that wise and powerful person knows that it can perform foolish actions and become more powerful and escape harm.

Or it's a binary decision. When a soul understands the nature of what is purely important, then it will not settle for something that takes that raw beautiful truth from them and would rather die then compromise.

This is why those others consider wise seemingly engage in reckless and apparently foolish actions with impunity and seem to only grow stronger for it, in order to reach it's potential as a completely free, pure and loving soul.


That is my experience with the nature of wisdom. It's a gravitational center that knows it's boundaries and sets itself free to reach it's highest potential to embody, in my experience, pure love and freedom.


That's my take on wisdom. Hope y'all enjoyed.

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#117645 - 12/05/18 11:50 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
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Would you say you find This agreeable?

Power in terms of ability? Plenty of people can move around and use influence to attain knowledge that isn't necessarily wise.
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#117647 - 12/05/18 12:22 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Would you say you find This agreeable?

Power in terms of ability? Plenty of people can move around and use influence to attain knowledge that isn't necessarily wise.



Not exactly. Power is a means not an ends. In my personal experience its power that brings greater spiritual harmony. People have different purposes and the honest problem I have is people casting judgment on the purpose of others or otherwise make it their business to impede another's path because they deem their path "too much" or whatever. The weak need the strong to survive and make a better world, and yet I often see the weak ones hurting the strong and unwittingly destroying themselves in the process. Any unbalance of power isn't good and abuses human rights.

The lack of wisdom I see from the historically oppressed is that they lose credibility with me when they fail to learn empathy from their pain and find catharsis in hurting others instead of healing them.

There are no innocent pasts nor is anyone blameless. How I judge others are if they are trying to use their power to heal their communities rather then harm them regardless.

I had a discussion with an old poetry associate of mine and I argued that blame isn't as important as finding a solution. He disagreed and favored a punitive approach. That is what made it transparent to me that he was unfit to rule.

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#117668 - 12/08/18 12:50 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: Czereda]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
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Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Wisdom vs knowledge vs insight. The things that are really important vs the things that only appear to be important. It's often hard to tell the difference. Like T.S. Eliot wrote, we lose wisdom in knowledge and knowledge in information. How is it possible that all the knowledge, instead of making some people wiser, makes them more ignorant? Can all these very important things obscure the small things that are at the core of our life? Can reason make us blind just like this poor Rabbit?


I think what is important depends on the amount of danger we, or our loved ones are in. Everything else is a luxury. In other words, deal with the fight and flight, and then if there is time, do whatever floats your goat and makes you feel good.


Edited by ShadowLover (12/08/18 01:00 AM)
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#117670 - 12/08/18 01:00 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: antikarmatomic]
ShadowLover Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 351
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
hmmm... ya' know I'm surprised “Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.” hasn't come up.


Bahahaha! (chokes) Made my day. So stealing... Not sure what for yet, but I'm sure I will pimp that bitch out for something one day. :P


Edited by ShadowLover (12/08/18 01:56 AM)
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#117674 - 12/08/18 01:22 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: ShadowLover]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
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Are not knowledge and wisdom one and the same, flipsides of a coin?
One implements the other. Danger and luxury are likewise flipsides. To have one puts you at risk for the other. The reasons are primal for humans. It depends on where you reside whether the poison of ignorance will dictate what you type on the screen.

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#117680 - 12/08/18 07:15 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: aeon6]
Rob Taylor Offline
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Registered: 03/14/14
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Loc: England, Surrey
I don't think they're the same, just related. A wise person uses knowledge to make a change in something, like an improvement. There are plenty of idiots full of knowledge but do nothing with it apart from quoting it.
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#117701 - 12/10/18 11:32 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: samowens84
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Would you say you find This agreeable?

Power in terms of ability? Plenty of people can move around and use influence to attain knowledge that isn't necessarily wise.



Not exactly. Power is a means not an ends. In my personal experience its power that brings greater spiritual harmony.


Sure, but I also didn't say that power was an end. What is spirtual harmony? Can you give me an example that's more practical?

 Quote:
Any unbalance of power isn't good and abuses human rights.


What grants you Rights? Good/Bad - is just a subjective descriptor.
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#117703 - 12/10/18 03:17 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 459
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Would you say you find This agreeable?

Power in terms of ability? Plenty of people can move around and use influence to attain knowledge that isn't necessarily wise.



Not exactly. Power is a means not an ends. In my personal experience its power that brings greater spiritual harmony.


Sure, but I also didn't say that power was an end. What is spirtual harmony? Can you give me an example that's more practical?

 Quote:
Any unbalance of power isn't good and abuses human rights.


What grants you Rights? Good/Bad - is just a subjective descriptor.


As far as rights go, in my experience people can't harm others without consequences unless they provide an escape route for their prey. If a person knows their boundaries and how these rules work then no one can take your rights away. Moral outrage against hurting vulnerable people is a natural primal response for a reason. A dignified free person will work to preserve their family and life with everything they have, and in response people become inspire to live up to that as well. Long winded Laveyan arguments suddenly don't matter when the bullshit that kept an individual from loving themselves is out the door. When that happens, unnecessary rationalizations hp out the door as primal protective instincts take over.

So called "satanic" cults gas light this natural instinct to groom better slaves while making them feel "sophisticated" by convaluted pseudo "Nietzschian" bullshit so people can make believe they're "beyond" good and evil and making their own decisions when their natural instincts that make natural self interested decisions had been scrubbed or otherwise rationalized away to make more efficient machines incapable of thinking for themselves unless otherwise inspired.

A person in such a position may have abilities but can claim no sense of actual power unless they can reclaim their natural state.

As far as power for what it requires a goal, otherwise one is just a compulsive efficient machine serving someone else morality or vision.

For example you may have all the skills for being a good waiter, but unless your making your own money to pay your own nills and support people you care about who cares? Might as well stay home.

Bottom line that unless this part or a person is claimed for themselves then that person is incapable of knowing his or herself because her values and desires have been replaced with somebody else's wants and desires. In such a case that person is incapable of having a moral code because the mechanics or forming one had been replaced.

This is what I mean by balance. You or anyone else would find it impossible act for themselves unless they are capable of claiming their own integrity. Integrity is power, but not just for power. Its the ability to protect and provide for your loved ones and your people and having the clarity to block out any other persons static or interference.

With integrity comes peace of mind. With integrity comes a sense of love. And that naturally translates into people you may or may not be cosmically connected with, and this translates into a more beautiful world for the individual and others around them. At least in my experience. No one worth their salt would want anything else in life in my opinion, because it feels wonderful in that space. And in pragmatic terms its only possible to stay in that space if most people are either there or have hope to get there, so its in my self interest to balance out anyone who feels a need to challenge that space.

Beyond that there are rules in my experience ethically speaking. If you don't acknowledge them however I can't persuade anyone to accept them. You either get it or you don't.

That being said violating those rules don't make getting to the place I described impossible. It just determines the road out of hell. Once out the world typically becomes more balanced. Spiritual balance is the price paid to exit hell. What I've seen in my journey anyway.


Edited by samowens84 (12/10/18 04:01 PM)

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#117706 - 12/11/18 09:59 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
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I think you're confusing natural order with Rights. Without already formed power principals of government instituations, would you even have Rights? What would make these recognizeable from personal entitlements? How do you discern them specifically?

In your given examples, you don't think it's an act of power if I want what you have and just take it from you on impulse? What am I being subserviant to? What mechanical impulses play a role there?

Even some of the top earners in the world serve someone, so amassed wealth isn't necessarily power. Nor is attaining it a real goal, if you're not living on your own terms.

Someone is always making rules for others to follow, it's not by its very invention Ethical.

Plenty of rule breakers have more power than those that follow the rules.

Mostly, it's just a personal calculated risk. Most people aren't willing to take high risks.
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#117709 - 12/11/18 04:18 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
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I feel we're in agreement. My issue is that too many people are trying to be too clever by half. From what I've seen and you may feel differently is that natural order always prevails. And from my personal experience if nature feels too many people are trying to be too clever and manipulate and hurt other people for selfish reasons with no interest in actually preserving order she becomes extremely angry at what people term "generational curses." Because its unnatural to hurt women and children as a perverse means for salvation. She is sick of it because this so called "solution" has only offered borrowed time and really only transfers karmic curses to a new people.

She has been waiting for a solution from a people for thousands of years and instead is consistently betrayed by selfish people who don't feel responsible for the earth and seem only interested in punishing the last experiment and preserving themselves at the expense of the earth.

Consider the "Age of Aquarius" Earth saying No to the next round of fuckers being just as evil as everyone before them but telling themselves its morally ok because its happening to them.

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#117726 - 12/12/18 11:17 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
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It's dog eat dog, always has been. The Earth doesn't give a shit about you, or any of its inhabitants. Man can't do shit about the natural progression of the Earth's life span. Age of Aquarius be damned. Just look at our Solar System.

It's natural to enact pain upon others, has been since human inception. How you handle these facts however, is another matter entirely.
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