Page all of 3 123>
Topic Options
#94646 - 12/04/14 06:11 PM Wisdom
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2157
Loc: Poland
"We've come to wish you a Very Happy Thursday," said Pooh, when he had gone in and out once or twice just to make sure that he could get out again.
"Why, what's going to happen on Thursday?" asked Rabbit, and when Pooh had explained, and Rabbit, whose life was made up of Important Things, said, "Oh, I thought you'd really come about something," ...

"Rabbit's clever," said Pooh thoughtfully.
"Yes," said Piglet, "Rabbit's clever." "And he has Brain."
"Yes," said Piglet, "Rabbit has Brain." There was a long silence.
"I suppose," said Pooh, "that that's why he never understands anything."


Wisdom vs knowledge vs insight. The things that are really important vs the things that only appear to be important. It's often hard to tell the difference. Like T.S. Eliot wrote, we lose wisdom in knowledge and knowledge in information. How is it possible that all the knowledge, instead of making some people wiser, makes them more ignorant? Can all these very important things obscure the small things that are at the core of our life? Can reason make us blind just like this poor Rabbit?


Edited by Czereda (12/04/14 06:14 PM)
_________________________
Anna Czereda
Crazy Cat Lady

Top
#94654 - 12/05/14 02:16 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: Czereda]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3410
There's a magic word which discerns one from the other. It's that which differentiates theory from practice.

"Experience".

People do not like having things exceed the theoretical boundaries. They'll become stuck with the fear of having duties and responsibilities. That they may encounter things that will shake their inner core. People do not like it. We're all pretty conservative when it comes down to it.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#94656 - 12/05/14 09:00 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: Czereda]
Megatron Offline
active member


Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 859
Loc: fuckit, some kid cracked my co...
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Wisdom vs knowledge vs insight.


Wisdom: Knowledge gained via lived-through experience.

Knowledge: Hypothetical third-person abstracts covering some subset of the phenomena of perception.

Insight (slash/intuition): The ability to convert the latter into the former.

That's my take anyway.
_________________________
You can't beat me, I'm a fucking Transformer (TM), dude.

Oh, and I spell everything right.

Top
#94671 - 12/05/14 05:55 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: Dimitri]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2157
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
"Experience"


When I was writing this post, I was thinking about my grandmother and what she went through when young. She survived the war, suffered poverty for some time, had to put up with an irresponsible husband and, although she finished only the primary school, she managed to cope with all life ordeals and she was always a very mature and reasonable person. I sometimes wonder how I would manage if I were in her place, equipped with all my education. You can never know how you will behave in some difficult situation unless faced with it. And the university degree is no guarantee you will make proper choices, because how many educated idiots are out there?

On the other hand, since experience is the best teacher, mistakes can become valuable lessons. Is there a specific moment in life, when we can say that we have just gained wisdom, that we became wise? I don't think so. We learn all the time by gaining more and more experience. Our judgement, our personal view of things changes and develops as we progress along our path. Other people can be an inspiration, studies can help a bit but they won't replace a direct experience.
_________________________
Anna Czereda
Crazy Cat Lady

Top
#95883 - 01/20/15 01:53 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: Czereda]
Vulcan Logician Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/04/15
Posts: 5
Loc: Maryland, USA
I always thought of wisdom as the ability to APPLY knowledge in decision making. As Demitri suggests, experiential knowledge (as I, too, believe) is superior to theoretical knowledge-- though they are both useful. Experiential knowledge is just so multi-faceted and all-pervading. Theoretical knowledge has a difficult time making an impression on the psyche. Experiential knowledge does not suffer from this deficit.

In regards to Megatron's thoughts:
To me, insight is a perceptive ability, not necessarily concerned with knowledge per se... but perception nourishes knowledge, so the two are certainly related (knowledge and insight.) I suppose you could say this boils down to semantics, but when these words are used, this is what they mean to me.

One who actually can make better choices because of the knowledge he has gained can be considered wise. One who makes poor choices (even if he is very knowledgeable) is unwise. Even a person with little knowledge (provided he uses what little knowledge he has to make better choices) could be considered wise. This goes for both experiential and theoretical knowledge.

You can have knowledge, yes. But only when this knowledge improves you can it be deemed "wisdom."

I believe that knowledge does not obscure wisdom necessarily. But knowledge nonetheless CAN obscure wisdom. Knowledge that does NOT obscure (but rather illuminates and clarifies) is thus wisdom.


Edited by Vulcan Logician (01/20/15 02:26 AM)
_________________________
"Stronger, more evil, and more profound; also more beautiful" -- Nietzsche

Top
#95884 - 01/20/15 02:40 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: Czereda]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 442
 Quote:
Can reason make us blind just like this poor Rabbit?


In the context that you pose this question, it does bring up a good point.

While I agree with Dimitri about experience, I would say that experience happens by testing the insights and gaining the knowledge.

However, the question then becomes does knowledge automatically equal wisdom?

When one considers experiences where the phrase: "I/he/she should have known better", the answer becomes that unfortunately people do not always gain wisdom from experience. They gain knowledge yes, but wisdom no.

 Quote:
How is it possible that all the knowledge, instead of making some people wiser, makes them more ignorant?


Take for instance someone who commits a crime. The person gets caught and gets thrown in jail. The person does not like jail, but still wants to accomplish his illegal goal.

The person has gained knowledge of something that doesn't work when committing the crime...something that got him caught. However, while he has this piece of knowledge, he is still ignorant enough to risk getting caught again.

Just in general everyday situations, how many people here have ran across that one person who never learns?

But back to your original question and point, I do think that sometimes people get so caught up in the big picture (knowledge or wanting to know) that they lose sight of both instinct and experience that will give them knowledge.

I recall Zeena talking about instinct on the Bob Larson show when Larson was trying to pigeon hole "right" and "wrong". Zeena was saying how that one's instinct determined that. As an example she used an infant being passed around a room until it reached that one person where it just started crying because instinctively the infant could sense something was wrong for itself.

I agreed very much with that point and remember thinking about how that unlike animals on all fours or infants that society conditions us to ignore instinct most of the time.

I try very much to pay attention to my gut senses.

Some would say that it is merely superstition to refrain from something because you have a bad feeling about it.

Experience has taught me better ;).
_________________________
my ebay sales

Top
#95885 - 01/20/15 03:10 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: LoneWolf78]
Vulcan Logician Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/04/15
Posts: 5
Loc: Maryland, USA
 Originally Posted By: LoneWolf78
I try very much to pay attention to my gut senses.

Some would say that it is merely superstition to refrain from something because you have a bad feeling about it.

Experience has taught me better ;).


Very much so. Gut senses can be easily "rationalized away" as they are sometimes "wrong." But they are YOUR gut feelings. And just as any sense can be inaccurate (i.e. when you see something out of the corner of your eye that isn't really there) you should not ignore your gut feelings any more than you should close your eyes. Cutting yourself off from gut feelings is analogous to closing your eyes. Bad idea-- no matter what rationalism dictates. Senses can be wrong, yes, but they are still your senses. They are the only link between your Self and the universe. That being said, the intellect and rationality could be deemed a "sense" in a certain way. We shouldn't cut ourselves off from this cornucopia either.
_________________________
"Stronger, more evil, and more profound; also more beautiful" -- Nietzsche

Top
#95899 - 01/20/15 02:00 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
How is it possible that all the knowledge, instead of making some people wiser, makes them more ignorant?


I think it's a matter of preferences and bias. For example the guy that prefers to have casual sex without condoms may try to sell the idea that Mountain Dew Makes You Sterile . He takes this bit of information and uses it to confirm his preferences are legitimized (that condoms are only a bother). This type is rarely concerned with the detriment of habitual casual sex without protection. Who cares if it kills him? He's already reasoned safety away.
_________________________
SINJONES.com
________________________
God Emperor Trump's Valkyrie

Top
#95905 - 01/20/15 02:39 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: Czereda]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
 Quote:
Wisdom: Knowledge gained via lived-through experience.

Knowledge: Hypothetical third-person abstracts covering some subset of the phenomena of perception.


hmmm... ya' know I'm surprised “Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.” hasn't come up.

 Quote:
Can all these very important things obscure the small things that are at the core of our life? Can reason make us blind just like this poor Rabbit?


Of course – 'happens all the time.

To stare hard and take a good long look at the "whys and wherefores" of that process is, at least in my mind, one of the more important tasks assigned to those grappling with the nature of psyche and the human condition (which certainly isn't for everyone – and even for those who are cut-out for it, it often doesn't end well – Nietzsche? Hemingway? LaVey? Need I say more?)

Naturally, taking such a task too seriously leads to the exact condition one is attempting to extricate themselves from in the first place. Entanglement.

Whatever ”system” one subscribes to (if any at all) it is evident enough that there is a certain unmistakable level of disharmony and confusion between the facets/levels of psyche.

Will, intellect, emotion, instinct, reason, knowledge, wisdom (I'm sure I've missed a few – depending upon your level of granularity, so here's a blank______) – they all speak their own language.

There's a “fault” in the wiring in that the left hand often doesn't know what the right hand is doing – except we're dealing with far more than just two * arms *

It is in the confusion betwixt (there's a word I don't use everyday) them that is, at least from where I stand, at once the core of individual human suffering and the fountain-head of the arts.

The burj babel – both within and without.

Admittedly, this is a pretty bold (maybe even vacuous, but by no means unique) assertion – still it is my intuition of the nature of things as it stands today.

Check back with me next year and who knows? I may be singing a completely different (and slightly less boring) tune...

...one can only hope. ;\)
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

Top
#95928 - 01/20/15 06:49 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: Megatron]
Naama Offline
member


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 318
Loc: NewYork
Insight comes prior to knowledge. As in Kabbalah: Khohmah, Binah, Daat. Khohmah is that initial vague " guess", like for example in the film "Usual Suspects" that detective suddenly realized who that criminal really was.
Binah is deep structural understanding, where you can explain your guess and break it down.
And finally Daat - deep applicable grounded knowledge which "works".
_________________________
http://i57.tinypic.com/2j498ih.jpg

Top
#95929 - 01/20/15 07:00 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
Naama Offline
member


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 318
Loc: NewYork
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Quote:
How is it possible that all the knowledge, instead of making some people wiser, makes them more ignorant?


I think it's a matter of preferences and bias. For example the guy that prefers to have casual sex without condoms may try to sell the idea that Mountain Dew Makes You Sterile . He takes this bit of information and uses it to confirm his preferences are legitimized (that condoms are only a bother). This type is rarely concerned with the detriment of habitual casual sex without protection. Who cares if it kills him? He's already reasoned safety away.



I look at this whole thing completely differently...
"It's only Me who knows what is killing me". !
Right..?
Life consisting of half-way pseudo experiences (espesially when it comes to such things as sexual pleasure, e.t.c.)would be "a killer", for me. Substitutes of low quality - they are killing me, so to say.
Safe or not - I would only put my bets on experiencing "real life",
and rather skip sex whatsoever, but won't go swimming wearing rubber boots.
Oh, and if "unprotected" (what a word... what a word) sex would be really That dangerous, I would not be sitting here typing all that, considering amount of times I've done that. (Well...once I had to have an injection shot, but tsss...shshs... don't tell...).


Edited by Naama (01/20/15 07:04 PM)
_________________________
http://i57.tinypic.com/2j498ih.jpg

Top
#95930 - 01/20/15 07:07 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: antikarmatomic]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2157
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
To stare hard and take a good long look at the "whys and wherefores" of that process is, at least in my mind, one of the more important tasks assigned to those grappling with the nature of psyche and the human condition (which certainly isn't for everyone – and even for those who are cut-out for it, it often doesn't end well – Nietzsche? Hemingway? LaVey? Need I say more?)

Naturally, taking such a task too seriously leads to the exact condition one is attempting to extricate themselves from in the first place. Entanglement.


I was thinking about the trees and the forest. The insight is often lost in the stream of petty details. It affects any religion, it also infests the occult. Take, for example, theologians, or an average religious person. They lose God/gnosis in the multitude of rules and dogmas. Or take an average Satanist posting questions like: "What time is the best to conduct a destruction ritual?" or an average pagan: "Which spells are most effective?" Whether such and such a person is a true Satanist, whether this or that organization is truly Satanic belongs to the same realm of petty bullshit.

Magic is nothing more than applied psychology. Suppose you read everything there is to read about Satanism or the occult in general. If you are unable to understand other people, if you can't put yourself in their shoes, if you can't see through them, then are you really a magician or an occultist? If you have knowledge but you aren't in touch with your intuition, if you didn't experience what you had read, then do you really have a clue about what you are talking about?

Just like with the rabbit. His friends come to wish him happy Thursday. It's only an excuse. They just wanted to visit him. Apparently, the rabbit didn't get it.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
For example the guy that prefers to have casual sex without condoms may try to sell the idea that Mountain Dew Makes You Sterile.


Typical confirmation bias. Most people are afraid of the knowledge that can shatter their comfortable delusions. So instead, they are looking for the "proofs" that will confirm their prejudices.
_________________________
Anna Czereda
Crazy Cat Lady

Top
#95933 - 01/20/15 07:31 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: Naama]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
I don't wear rubbers - ever.

Well... ok, let me back-track it always starts with rubbers, but they have a way of being tossed to the way-side. "Babe I'm just not feeling it" "me neither"

IN like sin.

And sure, I've chilled-out lately, like, a lot - I've found my one-worth dying-for.

Love is not a myth, it's just VERY fucking hard to find or understand (at least in my mind) until you're at least old enough to run for president.

Could also be a symptom of my nuts shrinking - there's always that possibility to consider. *shudders*

I'm clean (surprisingly!), sober, yet... have also ruined a good number of homes between then and now - but it's only somewhat my fault. "'door's unlocked. swing-through or swarm if you want otherwise I'm just here - drooling on my pillow"

*shrugs* 'not sure how you can live with yourself kissing your hubby with that mouth knowing where it's been, but there will always be darker shades of black than I.

this, too, is often a good thing - for some, anyway.
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

Top
#95934 - 01/20/15 07:38 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: Czereda]
CanisMachina42 Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1673
Loc: Ca
If none of knowledge is filtered through normal processes then you only have your intuition to guide you. Which, in some cases, can be flawed through faulty wiring.

How was the rabbit suppose to know the underlying reason? Maybe the rabbit has Asperger’s and doesn't 'get' the basics of animal interaction? Social cues may not be the rabbits strong suit.

"Why, what's going to happen on Thursday?"

This is a dead give away. This speaks to something else. Maybe the rabbit has so much conflicting information coming in that he is unable to process it correctly and needs this verifiable evidence to conclude why the fuck his friends are there in the first place.

Or maybe he's just an asshole.
_________________________
Spiritual : Abstraction ::

D. Scientific : Quod erat demonstrandum

Top
#95949 - 01/21/15 02:01 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: Czereda]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
 Quote:
Just like with the rabbit. His friends come to wish him happy Thursday. It's only an excuse. They just wanted to visit him. Apparently, the rabbit didn't get it.


I totally see what you're driving at. To be perfectly honest I see myself sometimes doing the same thing.

What I notice is that, ok, the shit I do for a living is probably the worst combination of 1) cerebral 2) "putting out fires" 3) time-sensitive 4) "mission-critical" 5) dealing with people who one can never be quite too sure of what their motives are ("political", in a word)

So my 9-5 (or better stated: my whenever-the-fuck-I-decide-to-wakeup - 9 hours-after-that) requires a "shift" in thinking - 'just the nature of the beast, which is fine.

The problem is I don't immediately "clock-out" when my day is done. I suspect this is true of basically any occupation.

I'll often find myself in that "state of mind" for quite sometime after the fact.

Friends unexpectedly knock on my door and I'm like "ok, what do they need? what favour (<- didn't think there was a U in that word, but the red squiggly says otherwise *shrugs*) are they going to ask me? what do they want me to fix? Can't they see I'm busy fucking-off? How dare they interrupt"

It takes a solid hour or so to "shift gears" and just chill. Conversely it takes a solid hour to "rev-up" back into work-mode.

For some people it might take even longer - perhaps never.

What I do find interesting about your analogy is that it touches a great deal on the nature of anxiety and fixation. It's also interesting that rabbits are often characterized in similar manners throughout many a story and myth.

I grapple with this a great deal if only because it amuses the ever loving shit out of me.

I certainly haven't reached any of the conclusions that, say Wilhelm Reich, or Freud has - but yes, I see it.

Vaguely, and you might notice yourself doing this too, it's something akin to forgetting to put the hammer back in the tool-box when you're done nailing shit to the wall.

Something along the lines of "forcing" when the situation calls for "letting"

*if I could be more clear about it, I'm sure I'd be working on a book deal by now ;\)


Edited by antikarmatomic (01/21/15 02:08 PM)
Edit Reason: thepenismightier
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

Top
#95969 - 01/21/15 09:20 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: Naama]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Naama
sex would be really That dangerous, I would not be sitting here typing all that, considering amount of times I've done that.


It was just an example in lieu of STD's like HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis, and HPV among others. The point is, in spite of knowledge, reasoning can rationalize just about anything - just as you have done.



_________________________
SINJONES.com
________________________
God Emperor Trump's Valkyrie

Top
#95970 - 01/21/15 09:50 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
 Quote:
The point is, in spite of knowledge, reasoning can rationalize just about anything


I don't disagree with that shit either, BUT - that I would add to that that it's not, like, just two people in the car grasping at the wheel - reason and knowledge - it's upwards of 8 of them (maybe 9, but there's nothing special about that number anyway unless you count in decimal - I vaguely remember being over this shit before somewhere here)

1+8 = 9. 1+E = F. For the same reasons.

18 is divisible 9. 1E is divisible by F. Columns of multiples of 9 add up to 9. Columns of multiples of F add up to F.

Whatever the maximum "squiggle" you can fit into a column without over-flowing holds the VERY same properties of 9. It even works in octal... decimal and even binary too... but... errr... that's binary, so fuck it - flip a coin \:\/

*simmers down

what I'm driving at is that reason, in and of itself, is as much the be-all / end-all of motivations as 9 is somehow this magical number... which is to say "it ain't".

It has properties within a system of digits in as much as reason has properties within a system of psyche.

*which, at this point, I'm not even 100% sure we or anyone else is debating.


Edited by antikarmatomic (01/21/15 09:59 PM)
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

Top
#95972 - 01/21/15 10:03 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
How is it possible that all the knowledge, instead of making some people wiser, makes them more ignorant?


I offered that Reasoning makes this possible, in spite of insight.

It's not as if Naama isn't aware of STD's, or that other variables don't weigh in decisions. She prefers (see what I did there) to have "real life" experience vs. pseudo-experience. If she happens to catch AIDS and die, well - fuck it- at least she lived.
_________________________
SINJONES.com
________________________
God Emperor Trump's Valkyrie

Top
#117629 - 12/04/18 03:58 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
How is it possible that all the knowledge, instead of making some people wiser, makes them more ignorant?


I offered that Reasoning makes this possible, in spite of insight.

It's not as if Naama isn't aware of STD's, or that other variables don't weigh in decisions. She prefers (see what I did there) to have "real life" experience vs. pseudo-experience. If she happens to catch AIDS and die, well - fuck it- at least she lived.



This thread is fascinating. And yes, it is three years old, going on four, but it does strike me as interesting.

I don't know how other people experience wisdom, but here is my first precept in my experience for what wisdom means for me.

The goal for wisdom in my experience is an unfiltered look at the world around me, in such a way, that I can accept myself with self-love and dignity. To be free to love, and experience life unfettered to maximum potential that ultimately becomes harmonious in the world on my terms.

The amount of wisdom possible in an individual is directly contingent on how powerful that individual is.

If that individual is less powerful, that individual will be willing to accept lesser degrees of truth to penetrate their soul. The more powerful an individual, then the more that soul will allow the world as it is to enter their purest being because their soul will have the power to reshape that reality in some fashion. If that soul is unable, then it will disallow that truth to enter their soulful fabric.

If a soul is willing and able to allow the world as it is to enter itself without being destroyed or oppressed, then that is pure wisdom made possible by limitless soulful power.

Wisdom will allow itself to experiment with foolish decisions because the soul of that wise and powerful person knows that it can perform foolish actions and become more powerful and escape harm.

Or it's a binary decision. When a soul understands the nature of what is purely important, then it will not settle for something that takes that raw beautiful truth from them and would rather die then compromise.

This is why those others consider wise seemingly engage in reckless and apparently foolish actions with impunity and seem to only grow stronger for it, in order to reach it's potential as a completely free, pure and loving soul.


That is my experience with the nature of wisdom. It's a gravitational center that knows it's boundaries and sets itself free to reach it's highest potential to embody, in my experience, pure love and freedom.


That's my take on wisdom. Hope y'all enjoyed.

Top
#117645 - 12/05/18 11:50 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
Would you say you find This agreeable?

Power in terms of ability? Plenty of people can move around and use influence to attain knowledge that isn't necessarily wise.
_________________________
SINJONES.com
________________________
God Emperor Trump's Valkyrie

Top
#117647 - 12/05/18 12:22 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Would you say you find This agreeable?

Power in terms of ability? Plenty of people can move around and use influence to attain knowledge that isn't necessarily wise.



Not exactly. Power is a means not an ends. In my personal experience its power that brings greater spiritual harmony. People have different purposes and the honest problem I have is people casting judgment on the purpose of others or otherwise make it their business to impede another's path because they deem their path "too much" or whatever. The weak need the strong to survive and make a better world, and yet I often see the weak ones hurting the strong and unwittingly destroying themselves in the process. Any unbalance of power isn't good and abuses human rights.

The lack of wisdom I see from the historically oppressed is that they lose credibility with me when they fail to learn empathy from their pain and find catharsis in hurting others instead of healing them.

There are no innocent pasts nor is anyone blameless. How I judge others are if they are trying to use their power to heal their communities rather then harm them regardless.

I had a discussion with an old poetry associate of mine and I argued that blame isn't as important as finding a solution. He disagreed and favored a punitive approach. That is what made it transparent to me that he was unfit to rule.

Top
#117668 - 12/08/18 12:50 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: Czereda]
ShadowLover Offline
member


Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 351
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Wisdom vs knowledge vs insight. The things that are really important vs the things that only appear to be important. It's often hard to tell the difference. Like T.S. Eliot wrote, we lose wisdom in knowledge and knowledge in information. How is it possible that all the knowledge, instead of making some people wiser, makes them more ignorant? Can all these very important things obscure the small things that are at the core of our life? Can reason make us blind just like this poor Rabbit?


I think what is important depends on the amount of danger we, or our loved ones are in. Everything else is a luxury. In other words, deal with the fight and flight, and then if there is time, do whatever floats your goat and makes you feel good.


Edited by ShadowLover (12/08/18 01:00 AM)
_________________________
Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.

Top
#117670 - 12/08/18 01:00 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: antikarmatomic]
ShadowLover Offline
member


Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 351
Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
hmmm... ya' know I'm surprised “Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.” hasn't come up.


Bahahaha! (chokes) Made my day. So stealing... Not sure what for yet, but I'm sure I will pimp that bitch out for something one day. :P


Edited by ShadowLover (12/08/18 01:56 AM)
_________________________
Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.

Top
#117674 - 12/08/18 01:22 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: ShadowLover]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 366
Loc: København, Denmark
Are not knowledge and wisdom one and the same, flipsides of a coin?
One implements the other. Danger and luxury are likewise flipsides. To have one puts you at risk for the other. The reasons are primal for humans. It depends on where you reside whether the poison of ignorance will dictate what you type on the screen.

Top
#117680 - 12/08/18 07:15 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: aeon6]
Rob Taylor Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 58
Loc: England, Surrey
I don't think they're the same, just related. A wise person uses knowledge to make a change in something, like an improvement. There are plenty of idiots full of knowledge but do nothing with it apart from quoting it.
Top
#117701 - 12/10/18 11:32 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Would you say you find This agreeable?

Power in terms of ability? Plenty of people can move around and use influence to attain knowledge that isn't necessarily wise.



Not exactly. Power is a means not an ends. In my personal experience its power that brings greater spiritual harmony.


Sure, but I also didn't say that power was an end. What is spirtual harmony? Can you give me an example that's more practical?

 Quote:
Any unbalance of power isn't good and abuses human rights.


What grants you Rights? Good/Bad - is just a subjective descriptor.
_________________________
SINJONES.com
________________________
God Emperor Trump's Valkyrie

Top
#117703 - 12/10/18 03:17 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Would you say you find This agreeable?

Power in terms of ability? Plenty of people can move around and use influence to attain knowledge that isn't necessarily wise.



Not exactly. Power is a means not an ends. In my personal experience its power that brings greater spiritual harmony.


Sure, but I also didn't say that power was an end. What is spirtual harmony? Can you give me an example that's more practical?

 Quote:
Any unbalance of power isn't good and abuses human rights.


What grants you Rights? Good/Bad - is just a subjective descriptor.


As far as rights go, in my experience people can't harm others without consequences unless they provide an escape route for their prey. If a person knows their boundaries and how these rules work then no one can take your rights away. Moral outrage against hurting vulnerable people is a natural primal response for a reason. A dignified free person will work to preserve their family and life with everything they have, and in response people become inspire to live up to that as well. Long winded Laveyan arguments suddenly don't matter when the bullshit that kept an individual from loving themselves is out the door. When that happens, unnecessary rationalizations hp out the door as primal protective instincts take over.

So called "satanic" cults gas light this natural instinct to groom better slaves while making them feel "sophisticated" by convaluted pseudo "Nietzschian" bullshit so people can make believe they're "beyond" good and evil and making their own decisions when their natural instincts that make natural self interested decisions had been scrubbed or otherwise rationalized away to make more efficient machines incapable of thinking for themselves unless otherwise inspired.

A person in such a position may have abilities but can claim no sense of actual power unless they can reclaim their natural state.

As far as power for what it requires a goal, otherwise one is just a compulsive efficient machine serving someone else morality or vision.

For example you may have all the skills for being a good waiter, but unless your making your own money to pay your own nills and support people you care about who cares? Might as well stay home.

Bottom line that unless this part or a person is claimed for themselves then that person is incapable of knowing his or herself because her values and desires have been replaced with somebody else's wants and desires. In such a case that person is incapable of having a moral code because the mechanics or forming one had been replaced.

This is what I mean by balance. You or anyone else would find it impossible act for themselves unless they are capable of claiming their own integrity. Integrity is power, but not just for power. Its the ability to protect and provide for your loved ones and your people and having the clarity to block out any other persons static or interference.

With integrity comes peace of mind. With integrity comes a sense of love. And that naturally translates into people you may or may not be cosmically connected with, and this translates into a more beautiful world for the individual and others around them. At least in my experience. No one worth their salt would want anything else in life in my opinion, because it feels wonderful in that space. And in pragmatic terms its only possible to stay in that space if most people are either there or have hope to get there, so its in my self interest to balance out anyone who feels a need to challenge that space.

Beyond that there are rules in my experience ethically speaking. If you don't acknowledge them however I can't persuade anyone to accept them. You either get it or you don't.

That being said violating those rules don't make getting to the place I described impossible. It just determines the road out of hell. Once out the world typically becomes more balanced. Spiritual balance is the price paid to exit hell. What I've seen in my journey anyway.


Edited by samowens84 (12/10/18 04:01 PM)

Top
#117706 - 12/11/18 09:59 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
I think you're confusing natural order with Rights. Without already formed power principals of government instituations, would you even have Rights? What would make these recognizeable from personal entitlements? How do you discern them specifically?

In your given examples, you don't think it's an act of power if I want what you have and just take it from you on impulse? What am I being subserviant to? What mechanical impulses play a role there?

Even some of the top earners in the world serve someone, so amassed wealth isn't necessarily power. Nor is attaining it a real goal, if you're not living on your own terms.

Someone is always making rules for others to follow, it's not by its very invention Ethical.

Plenty of rule breakers have more power than those that follow the rules.

Mostly, it's just a personal calculated risk. Most people aren't willing to take high risks.
_________________________
SINJONES.com
________________________
God Emperor Trump's Valkyrie

Top
#117709 - 12/11/18 04:18 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
I feel we're in agreement. My issue is that too many people are trying to be too clever by half. From what I've seen and you may feel differently is that natural order always prevails. And from my personal experience if nature feels too many people are trying to be too clever and manipulate and hurt other people for selfish reasons with no interest in actually preserving order she becomes extremely angry at what people term "generational curses." Because its unnatural to hurt women and children as a perverse means for salvation. She is sick of it because this so called "solution" has only offered borrowed time and really only transfers karmic curses to a new people.

She has been waiting for a solution from a people for thousands of years and instead is consistently betrayed by selfish people who don't feel responsible for the earth and seem only interested in punishing the last experiment and preserving themselves at the expense of the earth.

Consider the "Age of Aquarius" Earth saying No to the next round of fuckers being just as evil as everyone before them but telling themselves its morally ok because its happening to them.

Top
#117726 - 12/12/18 11:17 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
It's dog eat dog, always has been. The Earth doesn't give a shit about you, or any of its inhabitants. Man can't do shit about the natural progression of the Earth's life span. Age of Aquarius be damned. Just look at our Solar System.

It's natural to enact pain upon others, has been since human inception. How you handle these facts however, is another matter entirely.
_________________________
SINJONES.com
________________________
God Emperor Trump's Valkyrie

Top
#117733 - 12/12/18 08:46 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
It's dog eat dog, always has been. The Earth doesn't give a shit about you, or any of its inhabitants. Man can't do shit about the natural progression of the Earth's life span. Age of Aquarius be damned. Just look at our Solar System.

It's natural to enact pain upon others, has been since human inception. How you handle these facts however, is another matter entirely.


I am naturally inclined to act in that instinct when discussing things with you, so your right.

I don't however see a point in your statement of the obvious.

Its not just dog eat dog. Its a balance. That Caesar may have been idealistic and unbeatable in the battle field but faced a different fate in the senate probably illustrates the consequences of that divide when the aristocrat becomes too insulated from "dog eat dog" dynamics, but its a knife that cuts two ways. All the senators were then killed and had their wealth stripped from them because Caesar was loved by the people and Antony used that.

There seems to be an interesting relationship between aristocratic and common ideals. I don't believe the aristocrat fakes these ideals or else he likely wouldn't have succeeded. Whether Caesar was too pragmatic or too idealistic cuts against the grain for assuming he died for being too idealistic or too pragmatic. That the senate likely died for the same reasons by assuming they would be praised for their actions is interesting as well. The problem seems to me isn't about accepting whether the world is either idealistic or pragmatic. That conversation clearly means the problem is that the individual doesn't take responsibility for harmonizing their own mutually seeming conflicting pragmatic and idealistic impulses and depends on a pathological need to imagine the world as one way or the other.


Like someone wise once said, you can believe in everything or believe in nothing, and either way requires no thinking. Needing to view the world either way implies that such an individual is out of touch of either their idealistic or pragmatic side and exposes such a person to being manipulated by someone more in touch with both aspects of themselves. They might resent that person for exposing their weakness, but such a person was being exploited likely long before they met someone like me.

You live the life you choose.


Edited by samowens84 (12/12/18 08:47 PM)

Top
#117748 - 12/14/18 10:47 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
Please explain in practical terms how things are balanced. There will always be competitors, and deeds done that are beyond your own capabilities. You can think yourself into believing anything, it distracts from accepting reality for what it actually is.

If you're not picking up what I'm putting down here, check your beliefs.
_________________________
SINJONES.com
________________________
God Emperor Trump's Valkyrie

Top
#117749 - 12/14/18 03:20 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
They're not beliefs. These are things that I know. I'll say the same thing to you and perhaps if you're closed minded then I guess we're done here.

Beyond that though my premise is simple. We as white people don't need to be so aggressive in pushing back. Just preserve ourselves in connection to the earth. This is profoundly protective. Once achieved we let others work out their own salvation from a position of security and power without needing to interfere with others attempts to secure their own salvation because their efforts will not be a threat to us.

In fact, this makes life more balanced for everyone the less needy others are. If they are not successful in achieving their own salvation that's on them. But blacks and others will certainly be damned and crippled if we do not accept our new hard fought spiritual freedom.

In fact, I figure the old methods of so-called "reparations" to African-Americans a form of racism by patronizing them rather then giving them the opportunity to fail. So no, I don't consider racism necessary.

My point is pragmatic. All other routes to salvation fail, unless black people and others are allowed to work out their own salvation without white people as a scapegoat. If not they curse themselves. It doesn't matter how cathartic it may seem to them. I've noticed that their methods of interference always include self-hating psychic projection. That means that if they had succeeded in blocking us they would have destroyed themselves. The evidence of a self-annihilating curse in the form of a blessing.


Edited by samowens84 (12/14/18 03:44 PM)

Top
#117768 - 12/17/18 10:21 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
So what you're saying is, you can't really explain your beliefs in practical terms?

What you believe white people should or shouldn't do is irrelevant. If you're going to speak on balance, then you should be able to demonstrate it fairly easy, and without writing a treatise here.
_________________________
SINJONES.com
________________________
God Emperor Trump's Valkyrie

Top
#117771 - 12/18/18 12:40 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
No its not. That just means its irrelevant to you. If I didn't reach you that's your tragedy. I advocate simple self respect and self love and I've seen its positive effects on people in the world, and not just for white people. Many black people have also paradoxically felt confused about our mutual benefit and sometimes resent feeling gratitude towards me. That doesn't matter as much because, contrary to your claim, my "treatise" has had positive effects on many white women's self perception and it warms my heart to see those positive effects in the world.

I am aware that I've been mean to some who don't deserve it, and that's something I'm working on. I'm calming down believe it or not.

Top
#117803 - 12/21/18 10:31 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
You still haven't explained this balance you speak of. If you can't explain it just say so, stop dancing around it. I ain't some forum fucktard that will just accept this as your answer. Shit or get off the pot.
_________________________
SINJONES.com
________________________
God Emperor Trump's Valkyrie

Top
#117805 - 12/21/18 10:54 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
At my most singular point of consciousness I've found there is a safe place to always stay in my power. A place that has perfect balance in any situation. The nature of wisdom is finding it and pivoting.

P.M. me if you want a more detailed answer, assuming you're not just trolling.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=250s&v=mTi...gle&hl=en&gl=US


Edited by samowens84 (12/21/18 11:26 AM)

Top
#118330 - 02/02/19 04:51 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3410
That's basically saying "I retreat to my safe space".
Weak shit.

Can't find wisdom through isolation.
Only delusionment can be found that way.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#118331 - 02/02/19 07:10 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: Dimitri]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
Lol "safe space" works both ways. If someone leaves, it's their job to grow a pair of balls and come back. Coming and going is a courtesy and respect thing. Not a magic and intuition thing.
Top
#118351 - 02/02/19 06:54 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
A place that has perfect balance in any situation. The nature of wisdom is finding it and pivoting.


Consciousness is already singular. You can convince yourself of anything. This answer is inadequate because you used balance to explain balance. Try to be more practical in your explanation.
_________________________
SINJONES.com
________________________
God Emperor Trump's Valkyrie

Top
#119614 - 07/14/19 10:54 PM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
benshaw1940 Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/14/19
Posts: 1
The unconscious is a vast realm of understanding and wisdom is in learning the mythology.
Top
#119615 - 07/15/19 12:55 AM Re: Wisdom [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 741
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
A place that has perfect balance in any situation. The nature of wisdom is finding it and pivoting.


Consciousness is already singular. You can convince yourself of anything. This answer is inadequate because you used balance to explain balance. Try to be more practical in your explanation.


Wusdom is working towards eatin an ice cream samich without fear or guilt.

If you don't appreciate the simple joy of ice cream sandwhiches, I can't help you. lol

Top
Page all of 3 123>


Moderator:  TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Woland, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.083 seconds of which 0.05 seconds were spent on 55 queries. Zlib compression disabled.