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#960 - 10/08/07 07:32 AM Music...
Sinistar Offline
member


Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
Hail to all...

I remember when I was in high school and college and I used to listen to bands like The Smiths, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, and Celtic Frost. You know, what's considered "Goth".

Looking back, what were some of us so depressed about back then? We were young and had our whole lives ahead of us. If anything, adulthood is the time to be depressed because of problems with the spouse, the kids, and money, money, money.

I think that a lot of that music back then is more applicable now. Just a thought you guys.
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#962 - 10/08/07 08:04 AM Re: Music... [Re: Sinistar]
Sliver Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Georgia, USA
What I have found is that the idea of "now" is always depressing, the idea of "future" is always enlightening, and the idea of "past" is always of wasted worry.

This holds true for differing lengths of "always" of course.

As kids our problems were with responsibilities, friends, and family. In the present our problems are responsibilities, friends, and family. And tomorrow or in our twilight years our problems will be responsibilities, friends, and family. The levels of responsibilities differ from each time. As children it was to get our school work done and pass the tests. As adults, it is to take care of our bills, and the well being of all those we are responsible for. As elders, the responsibilities will include trying to stay healthy and make ends meet to survive another day.

When I was younger it was marilyn manson i used to listen to, because "they got me." Their music was expressing what I was feeling. Then it was Coal Chamber, and Korn, and Panthera. Now it is Slipknot, and all the above mentioned (maybe not so much Manson anymore). The emotions are the same now as they were then, we just put them onto new issues.

At least that's how I see it.

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#966 - 10/08/07 11:15 AM Re: Music... [Re: Sliver]
Sinistar Offline
member


Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
Great point, Sliver.

It's just that I feel that there's way more on our plates now. Looking back, our problems just weren't as big as they seem now. Although, it just didn't seem like it back then.

Looking at what you listened to back then, I guess it's safe to say that I'm about 10 years older than you.

In the 90's, a lot of people were into Pantera. I liked when Dimebag Darrell and Vinnie Paul came out with Damage Plan too. Their one and only c.d. is vastly underrated. Thanks.
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#981 - 10/08/07 03:19 PM Re: Music... [Re: Sinistar]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
I think it is also a matter of personal taste. I listen to what could be considered very dark, morbid and, in some cases, depressing music, but I don't find I am or ever really was a terribly depressed person. Of course, I'm not what you could call "buoyant" either.

So many people try to link psychological states of mind with a type of music that one listens to, but I don't really think that there is as direct a correlation as people think there is. I simply listen to what I like, not what I think I should listen to depending on my mood. Many people who could be categorized as depressed listen to "happy" music (mistakenly, I think) as a way to counterbalance their state of mind and futilely hoping to affect a change. Of course, there are, on the other hand, depressed people who listen to depressing music because they "get it" and it's "their music."

Some of the best music is dark, depressing, brooding, and lamentful because, in my opinion, negative emotion is the wellspring of expressive content in music. Think about it for a minute. Even if a person is of a very stoic temperament (i.e. not a crybaby), it is a basic human propensity to be the most vociferous when we are either angry or in pain or experiencing discomfort, whether physical or emotional. You stub your toe and you shout "THAT FUCKING HURT, GODDAMNIT!!!" right? But how many people who are genuinely happy go around shouting to the aether how fucking wonderful they feel? Very few, I should think, because they are content and when one is content, one has very little to complain about. Of course, one could cite such musical examples as Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" or Handel's "Hallelujah Chorus" from the Messiah, or any of K.C. and the Sunshine Band's repertoire for the other side of the argument, but tell me this: are these examples as effective as say Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings," Josquin des Prez's "De Profundis Clamavi ad te", or for the popular music equation, Pink Floyd's darkest moments? For some people, perhaps. For others, not so. Then again, it still is a matter of personal taste.
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The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

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#982 - 10/08/07 03:35 PM Re: Music... [Re: Draculesti]
Sinistar Offline
member


Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
That's true. Remember when the media blamed Marilyn Manson for Columbine? Blamed Ozzie's "Suicide Solution" on teen suicides, even though the song itself was about alcoholism?

Also, we happen to like this type of music. It doesn't mean that I'm feeling depressed everyday.

Anyway, it's my humble opinion that darker, brooding music screams out real life more than other genres. All too often, rap seems to talk about money, women, jewelry, and womanizing.
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#983 - 10/08/07 03:58 PM Re: Music... [Re: Sinistar]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Quote:
That's true. Remember when the media blamed Marilyn Manson for Columbine? Blamed Ozzie's "Suicide Solution" on teen suicides, even though the song itself was about alcoholism?


That is more or less what I was alluding to before. It is dangerous to mix psychology with music in such a way as to discredit and defame a band or song by making a surface judgement, as was done with "Suicide Solution," based on what one thinks the song represents after a limited probing of said song. If one were to more deeply explore the lyrics to the song, it becomes clear that it is about struggles with alcoholism. Furthermore, the word "solution" was used in this case not to mean "a means to an end" (particularly that of suicide) but rather in the chemical context of a mixture of substances.

While it is understandable that grieving parents who happened to find the album with the song among their deceased child's effects would want to blame anyone or anything for their child's suicide rather than look to their own shortcomings as parents, it is unfair to blame something which, I think, has little or no bearing on such matters. Very often negligence on the part of the parents, who failed to see the warning signs (which have very little to do with music, I assure you) that something was dangerously amiss with their child, is a common factor. Of course, it is easier for the parents to blame music than it is to blame themselves.
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The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#994 - 10/09/07 09:28 AM Re: Music... [Re: Draculesti]
Sinistar Offline
member


Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
Yeah, who wants to say that they're responsible for their child's suicide? Like you said, the child already had problems before the music came along.

On a lighter note, what do you guys have on your I-pods? My list includes: All That Remains, Dimmu Borgir, Metallica, Slipknot, Stone Sour, AC/DC, Children 0f Bodom, Immortal, Slayer, Darkthrone, Paradise Lost, Cradle Of Filth, Nile, Deicide, Gorgoroth, Satyricon, Anthrax, Lacuna Coil, Celtic Frost, Heaven Shall Burn, Black Label Society, Caliban, Killswitch Engage, Samael, Hate Breed, Skid Row, Guns N Roses, Megadeth, Converge, Jet, Walls Of Jericho, The White Stripes, The Doors, Lynard Skynard, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Korn, Cannibal Corpse, Breaking Benjamin, Neil Young, Iron Maiden and Audioslave. There's a few more, but that's all I can think of in the meantime.
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#1080 - 10/14/07 09:05 AM Re: Music... [Re: Sinistar]
Veldrin Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 55
Loc: Melbourne, Australia.
Who assumes we have ipods?

As for what we what we listen to, I would rather hope that this forum does not fall to the level of listing bands we like. This isn't myspace after all.

The discussion was getting good with the correlation between music and mood/psychology.

Let's not bring it down.

My view, the same people who complain about "broody" music influencing "teens" are the same who complain about violent video games.
Some small factor may be included, but nothing substantial, and is generally focused on rather than the underlying mental problems.

After all, it's so much easier to lay blame to some famous musician who has millions to spare in fines and fees, than it is to hear what a fucked up society we are and how actions within said society force incidents like Columbine.

I'm a little surprised I didn't go nuts on my school, or that a million other kids aren't blasting their problems away.

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#1085 - 10/14/07 02:03 PM Re: Music... [Re: Veldrin]
Sinistar Offline
member


Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
First off, it was a music discussion so talking about bands isn't out of the question.

It is true though that it's easy to blame music because no one wants to take responsibility for their own or for their child's actions. Whenever there's an incident on the news, the parent will say: "I had no idea." or blame other factors like a "bad crowd", etc.

Take it easy.

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#1086 - 10/15/07 05:09 AM Re: Music... [Re: Sinistar]
Veldrin Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 55
Loc: Melbourne, Australia.
A discussion about music is not simply listing bands.
Adding something about the band, or the style of music. Heck even the economic effects of their brand label sneakers would be a good thing.

But yeah agree with you on the other parts. So don't take it personally.

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#1217 - 10/21/07 03:45 PM Re: Music... [Re: Veldrin]
Sinistar Offline
member


Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
Ha, ha! Not at all!
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#1252 - 10/24/07 02:25 PM Re: Music... [Re: Sinistar]
Equilibrio Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Missouri
The soundtrack to my high school years didn't consist of the depressive goth stuff. My tastes ran more toward anger and power and mostly consisted of bands in the hardcore/thrash/crossover genres. Now that I am old(er) I find that my musical tastes still reflect my mood which no longer consists of anger, but more of a seething contempt for the collective idiot. My current listening habits include ritual/dark/martial industrial and ambient, neo-folk and stoner rock.

Edited by Equilibrio (10/24/07 02:27 PM)

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#1791 - 11/12/07 06:51 AM Re: Music... If Mayhem can be called such [Re: Sinistar]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
Hah, it's quite sad how once a cult band has been able to reduce to such a pitiful state. Once they used to be quite recognized in the field of blackmetal. Now with their latest album, Mayhem evidently didn't have anything new or intelligent to say, since all they had to offer was a full list of crimes and atrocities that the band members had committed to date, additional to the soundwaste ofcourse.
What had me laughing and initially had me grabbing my keyboard was this set of picture taken on one of their latest gigs.
How impressive can it be to tape symbols drawn on a paper to the drummer's set...
Say what you will or nothing at all, just had to share this.
Pictures

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#1796 - 11/12/07 10:37 AM Re: Music... If Mayhem can be called such [Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Quote:
Hah, it's quite sad how once a cult band has been able to reduce to such a pitiful state. Once they used to be quite recognized in the field of blackmetal. Now with their latest album, Mayhem evidently didn't have anything new or intelligent to say, since all they had to offer was a full list of crimes and atrocities that the band members had committed to date, additional to the soundwaste ofcourse.


Wow...I completely have to disagree with you here. What didn't you like about the album? I personally thought it was absolutely fantastic. It's some of their darkest (and best) material to date, at least in the latter incarnation (sans Euronymous). The guitar riffs are so twisted and it contains some of Hellhammer's best drumming. Honestly, I'm speaking from a total musical perspective, because I'm not very familiar with the lyrics (I recently moved and left all of my CD cases with lyric inserts in storage).

I feel that they have presented quite a new take on black metal, while still retaining some of the core elements that make black metal what it is. A band can remain somewhat within the confines of tradition and still push the boundaries of said tradition, which is what I feel Mayhem have done with this album. At the same time, it can be somewhat unconventional, which is another reason why I like it. I feel they are as relevant now as they ever were. In fact, this album is definitely in my top ten list for this year.

As for the symbols, they may not be impressive in the fashion in which they chose to display them, but there is some meaning behind them. They are symbols of world religions: the cross for Christianity, the crescent moon and star for Islam, the taijitu representing the forces of yin and yang of Taoism, and what appears to be, unless I am mistaken, a symbol in Sanskrit, the chief liturgical language of Hinduism and Buddhism. Mayhem, as you surely know, are very anti-religious, and not just against Christianity. Also, it looks like a rather small stage; there was probably not a lot of room for elaborate backdrops. Still, I'm not excusing the shitty presentation.

Anyway, to each his own. I can certainly understand why some wouldn't like the album, but I can also see why others would.
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The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#1835 - 11/13/07 03:14 AM Re: Music... If Mayhem can be called such [Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
DiabolusFilius Offline
lurker


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Southern California, USA
Can any of Mayhem's work post-De Mysteriis be considered Black Metal? I think it's evolved past the genre. Blasphemer is quoted as saying that he doesn't consider the music Mayhem has produced to be Black Metal. Everything from Wolfs Lair Abyss and on should be considered some kind of Avant Garde/Post-Black metal mix.

Ordo Ad Chao is definitely one of their darkest and heaviest works to date. Although I've always thought Attila's vocals to be annoying and out of place, they actually seem to fit with this album.
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