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#96461 - 02/06/15 12:48 AM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: CanisMachina42]
antikarmatomic Offline
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I actually see what you're driving at - but good fucking luck trying to explain that shit to people except through satire (saw the link, and was amused - the whitest kids you know)

Trying to reason with these people is like trying to explain spheres in flat land. "how do we deal with this circle?", "how can we reign-in on this imposing line-segment?" "well, from where I stand it's an oval"

And you're all like "dude! it's a fucking sphere - what are you? simple?"

The thing is that politicians are good at, like, two things - people and money. They don't "get tech" and they never will. Otherwise they'd being doing that.

That's just something the public is going to have to come to terms with.

Managers manage what they do not understand. Programmers understand what they do not manage. it's a truism.

It's like that whole beyonce meme



It can't be regulated - and it's too FSKing late to back-out now.

The best you can do is go it raw-dog and chaotic.

Write a script that searches Amazon for random shit using a dictionary of words. Same with Google searches. And do it raw-dog - "yeah, that's me, apparently"

Pretend to be oblivious. Make the algorithms go full on bork'd mode.

Apparently I'm very big into crotchet - according to the ads on FB, anyway - 'wonder why that is?

As for me. Ah! ya got me! Tater Salad. You can take those road blocks down now.

Employ lulz where reason failz.

'All you can do.


Edited by antikarmatomic (02/06/15 12:59 AM)
Edit Reason: apparently
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#96467 - 02/06/15 09:20 AM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: Fist]
Megatron Offline
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Registered: 08/22/14
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 Originally Posted By: Fist
 Originally Posted By: Megatron

The only way to do that is to treat it like a publicly owned utility.


No. That is not the only thing. The only thing to do is leave it alone.


Exactly. But the only way to "leave it alone" is to declare it off limits to those who would break it. And the only viable way to do that right now (with idiots controlling the Legislature) is to use some form of Executive action to curtail stupidity. Hence the FCC statement.

Do you really think Net Neutrality (i.e. the way it is) will survive this congress? Or will 600 and other sites that don't pay the ransom be subject to this:



That's a real question BTW.
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#96469 - 02/06/15 09:38 AM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: Megatron]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Megatron
Do you really think Net Neutrality (i.e. the way it is) will survive this congress? Or will 600 and other sites that don't pay the ransom be subject to this:


Here's the thing, in a Capitalist Society, why can't Corporations pay off the ISP's? I don't agree with the Neutrality aspect of it, even if it provides me with a service that is Faster to some sites and slower to others.

If say, Xear wanted to invest (and even ask forum members to contribute) to keep this site running fast, isn't this the nature of such a society? The goods/services aspect? Economy?

Why do people feel entitled to Internet?

I guess those are questions in my mind that seek answers.

Edit to add, as far as what AK is driving at - there's always a way to get it done, delete the cache and any trace of it. Some money exchanges hands, but it's do-able.
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#96471 - 02/06/15 10:27 AM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: SIN3]
Megatron Offline
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Registered: 08/22/14
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Here's the thing, in a Capitalist Society, why can't Corporations pay off the ISP's?
[. . .]

Some money exchanges hands, but it's do-able.


To what effect? Money changes hands, sure, but how does that benefit YOU?

The problem here is that were basically talking corporatism vs. libertarianism vs. something better (which we already have).

I find it rather odd that the folks who advocate for small government/libertarian principles always end up shooting themselves in the foot due to their stranger bedfellows.

The meatpacking industry was working great until Upton Sinclair led us into The Jungle.

Awww, these pesky REGULATIONS. Forcing us to produce food that won't kill us. How dare they?

While we're at it, I expect a serious reasoned argument for BARTER. Because obviously, you like it old-school.


Edited by Megatron (02/06/15 10:28 AM)
Edit Reason: Insert your "didn't answer my question" BS below . . .
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#96479 - 02/06/15 01:21 PM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: Megatron]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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 Originally Posted By: Megatron


To what effect? Money changes hands, sure, but how does that benefit YOU?



Why does it have to? I didn't put forth any effort what-so-ever to harness the Internet, so why should I feel entitled to a direct benefit?

Seriously, people put way too much importance on this form of communication. I'd be content to go back to pen and paper, or messenger or smoke signals... Seriously.

 Quote:

Awww, these pesky REGULATIONS. Forcing us to produce food that won't kill us. How dare they?

While we're at it, I expect a serious reasoned argument for BARTER. Because obviously, you like it old-school.



I just find it amusing that even in this modern age with all our so-called advancements, people feel utterly helpless UNLESS they are provided for.

I do prefer things Old Skool, so what?
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#96480 - 02/06/15 01:37 PM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Quote:
Edit to add, as far as what AK is driving at - there's always a way to get it done, delete the cache and any trace of it. Some money exchanges hands, but it's do-able.


I understand that this seems perfectly reasonable to you – which is why I highly encourage people to get their hands dirty with the ins-and-outs of how this internet thing actually works.

It's really fun, and you end up learning a lot – anyone can do it too – it's just cryptic, not rocket-surgery.

Do you think clearing your cache (client side) does anything to remove your record of being here from the server (much less the routers and switches between this site)?

Do you sincerely think TOR exit-nodes cannot see who you really are? Who's running them? Just food for thought ;\)

 Quote:
I do prefer things Old Skool, so what?
not to be a dick, or whatever, but mmmm... these posts on this forum aren't exactly rainbow-sheets.
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#96485 - 02/06/15 01:43 PM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: SIN3]
mountaingoat Offline
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The horrors of the industrial evolution were just city people screwing city people. If I became uncomfortable with the food at the grocer's, I can just as easily harvest it from the wild. Sure, I like sitting down in a nice resaurant for a steak, but venison and foraged morels makes a pretty good meal too. Regulation simply allows the mediocre to live without the risks and dangers implied in being a competing organism on this planet.
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#96986 - 02/26/15 10:48 PM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: SIN3]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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Looks like its a done deal...

Power to the People!

 Quote:
Today the FCC made a historic move to protect net neutrality. By reclassifying ISPs under Title II of the Communications Act, the internet is now regulated like a utility.


 Quote:
The regulation will prevent those companies from striking deals that give preferential treatment to content providers.


I guess we'll see how this goes, especially streaming rates to services like Netflix, one of the most mentioned services during all this hoo ha.
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#96987 - 02/26/15 11:13 PM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: SIN3]
xear Administrator Offline
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This ruling is great in the short term, as it stops comcast and time warner from being fucked. In the long term is screws everyone.

If Internet is now regulated as a utility, it means that the highest bidder can determine what happens to the internet.

- R

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#96991 - 02/27/15 08:36 AM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: xear]
Megatron Offline
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Registered: 08/22/14
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 Originally Posted By: xear
This ruling is great in the short term, as it stops comcast and time warner from being fucked. In the long term is screws everyone.

If Internet is now regulated as a utility, it means that the highest bidder can determine what happens to the internet.

- R


Are you serious? I think you have net neutrality, and the utility thing absolutely backwards.

What you mean to say is that this ruling stops YOUR SITE from getting fucked by Comcast/TimeWarner/whoever.

Unless, of course, you really want the internet to be "pay-to-play"?
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#96992 - 02/27/15 10:09 AM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: Megatron]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6737
Loc: Virginia
Here's some articles for review:

Scientific American

 Quote:

"Both sides likewise base their arguments heavily on hypotheticals."


NBC News

 Quote:
"Opponents of net neutrality still have hope. Congress could pass legislation undercutting the FCC vote and broadband companies can still file lawsuits."


Forbes

 Quote:
Proponents of Net Neutrality say the telecoms have too much power. I agree. Everyone seems to agree that monopolies are bad and competition is good, and just like you, I would like to see more competition. But if monopolies are bad, why should we trust the U.S. government, the largest, most powerful monopoly in the world? "


I don't trust my government.

As I stated earlier on, while the FCC claims there won't be any 'New Fees', the jury isn't out on that yet. The Bill hasn't even published so we don't know what it involves aside the rhetoric going back and forth.

I think it's a solution that doesn't work to a problem that doesn't exist. Not in any real meaningful way.

There will be lawsuits in the coming days and it will remain the same argument. The government overreaching and opening doors to further regulation.

Rush Limbaugh presented the idea: "What's to stop the FCC from requiring a license to run a website?"

Exactly. It may not be today, or even a year from now but in the future it will become yet another Constitutional Issue of free speech, free market, etc. bladie bladie blah.

If all these ISP's are showing favoritism, why do I always have streaming issues with all of these services? It's the nature of the Internet and packet delivery.

When people say 'free internet' what do they even mean by that?

If the comparison to be made is to the telephone service, when was the last time you got that for free? Free of taxes and franchise fees?
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#96998 - 02/27/15 01:11 PM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: Megatron]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3125
 Originally Posted By: Megatron
Are you serious? I think you have net neutrality, and the utility thing absolutely backwards.

I'm convinced Xear has got it at the right end.
Well... partially.. I'm of the belief (utterly convinced actually) that the internet IS regulated as an utility. That the highest bidders can already determine what happens on the internet.

I just have to refer to the censorship youtube applies in the name of different production companies. I can refer to the changes that have been recently made on 4chan regarding the different "boards". The highest bidders already took over the internet. FCC is just a little legal titbit that makes procedures more easy to follow and enforce.

 Originally Posted By: Megatron
Unless, of course, you really want the internet to be "pay-to-play"?

... you're really that backward to still think the internet was free? Heh.
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#97000 - 02/27/15 01:53 PM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I think it's a solution that doesn't work to a problem that doesn't exist.


I could not have put it better myself. In seeing both sides of the debate - for several years now, it's one of those issues that I'm still like "wtf? there's nothing to fix".

Seriously, we're talking about "fast lane" access - when the reality - the big ol' pink elephant in the room is that the US isn't even in the top 10 countries in terms of internet speed in the first fucking place.

Funny that all this is taking place around the same time the US is about to relinquish control of ICANN. Coincidence? Maybe.

Besides, what would fast-lane access entail? Speeds on par with the rest of the world?

As to what this all opens the door for in the wake of "cyber-terrorism" and "NSA surveillance" with subsequent administrations is, at best, unfathomable.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
When people say 'free internet' what do they even mean by that?


The whole GNU concept - "Free as in freedom not free as in beer"

Unfortunately I don't see it becoming "freer" in either sense of the world.

Still, I'm not quite a pessimist yet. There will always be those Captain Crunch/John Draper's of the world - bypassing shit with fucking plastic whistles.

Information wants to be free, and goddamnit it will be!

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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#97006 - 02/27/15 08:15 PM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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 Quote:
when the reality - the big ol' pink elephant in the room is that the US isn't even in the top 10 countries in terms of internet speed in the first fucking place.


BINGO.

Meanwhile... Back at the Ponderosa. The FBI is whining about not being able to keep up with Isis and the 'Radicals' Internet Kung-fu, the House just approved a budget to Homeland security through 2017.

#Nothingtosee

Something about dots... er'sumthing.

So while people are cheering with roaring applause as if Vanna White just presented their NEW CAR!!! This shit is going to be a glossing over of larger issues at hand.
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#97007 - 02/27/15 08:40 PM Re: FCC: Adversarial Force to Open Internet [Re: SIN3]
mountaingoat Offline
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Government regulation of the internet will inevitably lead to a wider gap between US and foreign cyber technology. The enforced uniformity of isp's is going to wipe out the incentive for commercial competition. This has the stench of the typical American trend towards expensive mediocrity. The companies that play ball with the government will dominate the market and reduce choice while raising prices with damn few if any alternatives.
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