Page 4 of 8 « First<23456>Last »
Topic Options
#85573 - 03/08/14 03:04 AM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: SIN3]
334forwardspin Offline
member


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
Yeah, I remember Jon was 31 when he committed suicide. In his case, it is believed he had it planned out since his release from prison almost 2 years earlier. The details of what exactly each person set out to do would vary, and I guess in certain instances that could be done by one's 30s.

The goal may be to reach the highest level of your chosen craft, which could be done when your very young. Of course, it does seem like you would want to enjoy being on top for awhile before hanging it up. My guess would be that he just sort of felt as though it was time.

I was always a bit shaky on dying on your own terms, in my TOTBL days. I supported and understood the idea but doing it is a different matter. When I considered it, I thought 30s was too young, late 40s seemed better. The concept and the thinking behind it is interesting for me, though it's not something I'd consider at this point.

Top
#85603 - 03/09/14 10:01 AM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: 334forwardspin]
BaronVonShankly Offline
member


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 169
Loc: London
I don't think these people kill themselves once they become a rock star etc. I think it's more based on the first dip in the wave for example with ST the band broke up he was on a new project which didn't have as much interest as the devil's blood so it wasn't as good as it was before. Therefore he saw himself as going down a level of where he was previously.
I agree with 334 it's the highest level and because of the dip he saw it as losing it.

Top
#85605 - 03/09/14 03:11 PM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: BaronVonShankly]
334forwardspin Offline
member


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
Seeing a dip could be a reason, since a reason they give for supporting it is dying while your still strong, and not "begging for mercy on your deathbed" as they put it. I guess the mindset in that case would be that once your past your peak, all that's left is going downhill and it's time to move on to the afterlife stage.

Granted, a dip doesn't always mean that you'll never do better again, but perhaps he just figured he'd never top the Devil's Blood. It's all hard to say before more details come out, like SIN said we'll never know for sure I guess.

Every case is different though, from what I hear of Jon's case he never seemed to see a dip in the wave, but just that he had been at the highest level long enough, that 3 major albums was enough and that it was "time to go".

Top
#86812 - 04/25/14 05:38 AM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: Arkham]
Necrophilvs Offline
pledge


Registered: 04/09/14
Posts: 98
Loc: Finland
 Originally Posted By: Arkham

I got the Liber azerate but as far as i know, it is only avaible in Swedish at this time, but I've heard rumors telling that TOTBL will print English and German copies during 2007, but haven't seen anyone yet.


Anyone knows if the book is already available in English?
_________________________
"My body is a temple, wherein all demons dwell. A pantheon of flesh am I!"

Top
#86814 - 04/25/14 06:19 AM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: Necrophilvs]
Desecrated Offline
pledge


Registered: 04/21/14
Posts: 50
Or does anybody know where one can buy it in swedish. I can only find the PDF and I want the real book.
Top
#87147 - 05/04/14 09:48 AM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: Desecrated]
Necrophilvs Offline
pledge


Registered: 04/09/14
Posts: 98
Loc: Finland
What about the Book of Sitra Achra? I've come across a pdf version of that book; what is its relation with the Liber Azerate and the TotBL?
_________________________
"My body is a temple, wherein all demons dwell. A pantheon of flesh am I!"

Top
#87156 - 05/04/14 01:26 PM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: Necrophilvs]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Liber Azerate is basically an earlier, less-refined "rough draft" version. It's kinda patchwork and contains a lot of visible influence from Thelema, Kenneth Grant, the Temple of Set, and the ONA. The TotBL had selections of it on their website until they bombed the whole thing two years ago and decided to go underground.

"The Book of Sitra Achra" is basically their 'new' foundation text for the 218 current, which seems more focused and had more work put into it, but I haven't read the whole thing so I can't say for certain.


Edited by The Zebu (05/04/14 01:28 PM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#87196 - 05/06/14 09:06 AM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: The Zebu]
Necrophilvs Offline
pledge


Registered: 04/09/14
Posts: 98
Loc: Finland
That's good to know, thanks for the info. It's not that I'm planning to study deeply TotBL philosophy and (anti)cosmovision, but I'd like to know what they defend, even if on a superficial level. Besides, the notorious "Dissection connection" also makes me interested, since I am fan of the band. I doubt that, however, as a worldly materialist, I will ever be gained to their anti-materialistic positions.

Edited by Necrophilvs (05/06/14 09:06 AM)
_________________________
"My body is a temple, wherein all demons dwell. A pantheon of flesh am I!"

Top
#87200 - 05/06/14 10:25 AM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: The Zebu]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
It's kinda patchwork and contains a lot of visible influence from Thelema, Kenneth Grant, the Temple of Set, and the ONA. The TotBL had selections of it on their website until they bombed the whole thing two years ago and decided to go underground.


I've been watching the series Fringe, I've just hit a batch of episodes centered around the ZFT (Zerstörung durch Fortschritte der Technologie), it may be confirmation bias on my part but I couldn't help but pick up on some 'themes' from the same influences.

Teaser
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#87350 - 05/10/14 05:34 PM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: Necrophilvs]
334forwardspin Offline
member


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
 Originally Posted By: Necrophilvs
That's good to know, thanks for the info. It's not that I'm planning to study deeply TotBL philosophy and (anti)cosmovision, but I'd like to know what they defend, even if on a superficial level. Besides, the notorious "Dissection connection" also makes me interested, since I am fan of the band. I doubt that, however, as a worldly materialist, I will ever be gained to their anti-materialistic positions.


If you don't have a deep interest, I wouldn't personally recommend buying the Book of Sitra Achra unless you don't have a problem throwing hundreds of dollars into just a slight interest. I would recommend searching for some old TOTBL scripts, as they are still up in bits and pieces. I'm not sure how many you've seen already, but here are a few.

I'd Google 'Chaosophic version of the Enuma Elish', which they used to have up. As you may know, they basically believe the universe began with the Sumerian creation story, but from the 'dark' side of it. This will basically tell you their take on that. Google TOTBL with 'Lucifer is Satan', 'Satan is the Lord of Evil' as two other sub topics from their site, to give you their takes on why they equate Lucifer and Satan together, and their view on 'evil' meaning a willingness to embrace that which is deemed evil. Those are just a few off the top of my head. The Gnostic Bible may be of a little help as well, and you may be able to read that for free at a bookstore. Try and find a list of the 24 Chaos-Gnostic Aphorisms as well, that can tell you a little about what they're about.

As I'm sure you expect, it's drizzled in 'Oh how scary!' language probably just to be dramatic, so you'll often have to look at it in a metaphorical sense. A lot of their message has some value to it(at least for me), you just have to kind of take what you like and discard the rest.

When you say you want to know what they defend, how do you mean? You seem to know a bit about what they are about, but what else are you looking for?

As for your take on their anti-materialistic stance, I sort of take a less extreme view of that. For me, it's more about seeing value in the non material, and a willingness to embrace those things at price of not having as much in material gain. I like some material things, and I'm sure even the staunch TOTBLers do as well, but for me the 'anti materialistic' viewpoint is more about being intrinsically motivated. My motivation for success is mostly pride as opposed to material gain for instance, so I often embrace goals that likely won't lead to any financial prosperity.


Edited by 334forwardspin (05/10/14 05:38 PM)

Top
#88252 - 05/30/14 09:21 PM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: 334forwardspin]
lou_cifer Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 16
Must say always thought this group was a metallers social club,until i started workin at a music venue .
And discoverd that these are indeed very commited to there studies, rituals and beliefs .
but i find it also hard to believe that someone who makes decent amounts of euros and has an extensive merchandise line ,can be anti-materialistic.
one of those points where these guys contradict themselve , cant get my head arround the closed status of this order seeing that a band like watain performs some rituals on stage in fact they call there gigs rituals . why openly perform a ritual if u dont want to atract people to your organisation.
espacially in that nice of metal .

Also for me what turned me of, was the ritualistic use of animals .
cant really condone the slaughter of an animal for the use of its blood in a ritual . Nor food for that matter .

As far the mlo starting out as an mc , its true that nodveidt was a member of a mc called werewolf legion, also being a high ranking mlo totbl member is were the asumption comes from i think.


please forgive my grammer and spelling mistakes for i am an dutchie


Edited by lou_cifer (05/30/14 09:26 PM)

Top
#88259 - 05/30/14 10:50 PM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: lou_cifer]
numen Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/12
Posts: 218
One thing I do like about what the ToTBL has done thus far is the way in which they've (more recently) limited access to their material via price.

One thing I don't yet understand about them is why they don't kill themselves in more grandiose and liberating (for others) ways. The ONA published a "Rite of Acausal Existence" that illustrates what I mean by that.

Like old school Gnosticism it appears to be a self-limiting philosophy and so I suspect a flash in the pan given the acceleration of such processes in modern societies.

Top
#88268 - 05/31/14 03:22 AM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: numen]
lou_cifer Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 16

One thing I don't yet understand about them is why they don't kill themselves in more grandiose and liberating (for others) ways. The ONA published a "Rite of Acausal Existence" that illustrates what I mean by that.



Like old school Gnosticism it appears to be a self-limiting philosophy and so I suspect a flash in the pan given the acceleration of such processes in modern societies.


agree on both of those points you make:
them being muscians popular in there scene , there for getting the acclaim for the(esoteric) work might have accelerated these actions. No matter how strong minded you are if u get your ass kissed by everyone around you inc thousands of fans .Must magnefy that feeling of that peak or limit of earthly potenial

The music they make is pretty limitless by design, so i qeuss its human nature to limit yourself one way or the other .

Plus i wouldnt want my loved ones or my gf for that matter, find me wih my brains splatterd on the wall .



Edited by lou_cifer (05/31/14 03:27 AM)

Top
#88272 - 05/31/14 06:59 AM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: numen]
334forwardspin Offline
member


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
 Originally Posted By: numen
One thing I do like about what the ToTBL has done thus far is the way in which they've (more recently) limited access to their material via price.

One thing I don't yet understand about them is why they don't kill themselves in more grandiose and liberating (for others) ways. The ONA published a "Rite of Acausal Existence" that illustrates what I mean by that.

Like old school Gnosticism it appears to be a self-limiting philosophy and so I suspect a flash in the pan given the acceleration of such processes in modern societies.


For me, that's something that would serve as evidence of them not being the 'real deal'. They claim limiting access to their materials is for the sake of making people work to find them, so only those who truly desire it and are willing to do what it takes. The problem though, is this doesn't accomplish that. This means 'if you can spare over 300 dollars for a book, you get it'. With their 'anti materialistic' stance, this doesn't mesh. It seems to provide evidence to people's claims that they are only trying to promote Watain for merch.

It is in certain senses a limiting philosophy, but in truth most philosophies are. Certain ideals of self discipline meant for pursuing certain goals or attaining certain 'virtues' are likely to limit certain things. However, I think their idea is that it wouldn't be limiting to those who embrace the philosophy, because the 'good' outweighs the 'bad' in their eyes, and they're fine with the results of the limitations.

Top
#88273 - 05/31/14 07:15 AM Re: The Temple of the Black Light and MLO [Re: lou_cifer]
334forwardspin Offline
member


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
 Originally Posted By: lou_cifer
Must say always thought this group was a metallers social club,until i started workin at a music venue .
And discoverd that these are indeed very commited to there studies, rituals and beliefs .
but i find it also hard to believe that someone who makes decent amounts of euros and has an extensive merchandise line ,can be anti-materialistic.
one of those points where these guys contradict themselve , cant get my head arround the closed status of this order seeing that a band like watain performs some rituals on stage in fact they call there gigs rituals . why openly perform a ritual if u dont want to atract people to your organisation.
espacially in that nice of metal .

Also for me what turned me of, was the ritualistic use of animals .
cant really condone the slaughter of an animal for the use of its blood in a ritual . Nor food for that matter .

As far the mlo starting out as an mc , its true that nodveidt was a member of a mc called werewolf legion, also being a high ranking mlo totbl member is were the asumption comes from i think.


please forgive my grammer and spelling mistakes for i am an dutchie
I do agree, a lot of what they do doesn't seem to mesh. I wouldn't say making money promoting their ideas alone makes them hypocrites for the anti materialistic stance though. Their stance is more against conforming for the sake of materialism or popularity. Basically meaning, it's fine to make money off your message, but don't compromise the message for the sake of it. The high prices in attempt to limit access don't mesh though, because it limits access by money as opposed to by desire for the materials.

With the animal sacrifice, well I have to ask why you dislike animal sacrifice specifically. It's not something I personally like, but I wonder if you feel the same way about human sacrifice. The reason I ask is because there seems to be a stance at times against killing a non human animal, but not a human, but why?

If you have no problem killing a human, why would killing an animal bother you?

Top
Page 4 of 8 « First<23456>Last »


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.024 seconds of which 0.003 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.