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#112768 - 05/12/17 04:28 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: samowens84]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 432
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
Like Ive said, project on me what you want.


I have not projected anything on you.

 Originally Posted By: samowens84
My view is that personal impressions of people have minimal reflections of reality.


What is reality? If you have ten people in a room you have ten different realities.

With reflection it really depends. Are you reflecting someone back at themselves, are you looking in the mirror, or are they both the same thing?

Your personal impressions certainly reflect and effect your own reality all of the time.

 Originally Posted By: samowens84
People get too focused on what is outside of them they seem to dilute whatever personal power they might possess. I generalize of course. But personal satisfaction for me has always begun with self-knowledge.


Oh, absolutely agreed. You see all of these people trying to find "God" looking everywhere but inside themselves. ;\)



Edited by LoneWolf78 (05/12/17 04:31 PM)
Edit Reason: add point to edit.

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#112769 - 05/12/17 04:37 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: samowens84]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7079
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
Ive noticed that people think that changing semantics will change society,


Yeah, you know how that goes. People put forth less effort bitching than they do moving the wall.


 Quote:

which is delusional because it just seems to allow the underlying attitudes to go unchecked. People are afraid of not being "good" so they stop being willing to admit any kind of sexist/racial bias.


Honestly, I think the social attitude is getting worse. Especially from White people. I can't tell you how many times I've checked people for their logical fallacies and irrational thinking. As far as I'm concerned, if you're going to hold racial bias, don't pussyfoot around about it. Saying "Oh, but I'm not racist..." doesn't cut it for me. I think people fear the label. I've been called a racist a million times, I own it. so what? Now that you've labeled me one what do you plan to do about it? People hold bias and prejudice, I just wish they'd stop playing cat and mouse about it. FFS, such pussies.

 Quote:
I have a proffessor who is a black nationalist, and he took issue with people pretending that taking down the confederate flag will change the institution. He feels that the flag should stay up so as to remind black people that they need to create their own institutions and businesses instead of pretending they can make society into an "impartial" one that they can succeed in.


Right? Thing is though, that would just reinforce segregation vs. integration. A lot of these descriptors are designed to keep separation of peoples vs. appreciation of diversity.

 Quote:

Bottom line, his attitude his attitude is instead of loving your oppressors into playing nice, that they need to create their own world.

I think the analogy applies here as well.


There's also a lot of delusions running rampant as to who or what the oppressor is. It's rarely white people, it's the attitude of "I'm lazy because the White Man keeps me down." Not even bothering to try isn't oppression. It's being comfortable in your excuses and justifications.

No black man on Wall Street makes such gripes.
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#112770 - 05/12/17 04:45 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: SIN3]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 432
 Originally Posted By: SIN
Right? Thing is though, that would just reinforce segregation vs. integration. A lot of these descriptors are designed to keep separation of peoples vs. appreciation of diversity.


Good point.

I would also add that this whole bullshit mantra is that everyone is the same (does that mean equal?) also refuses to appreciate diversity and if anything keeps things more divided as you said.

For an example it is harder to hate someone if you believe that they are the same as you (unless you are self-hating). But, that fails to honor the diversity. It does not say, "Hey, you know you and I are different in this respect and that is what I like about you." It kind of erases the yin and the yang into a solid white or solid black circle.

Very good point.

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#112771 - 05/12/17 04:56 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 257
 Originally Posted By: SIN3

Right? Thing is though, that would just reinforce segregation vs. integration. A lot of these descriptors are designed to keep separation of peoples vs. appreciation of diversity.



Interesting evolution of the thread. Feel like I hijacked it from the sign guy lol. oh well. He (my old professor) actually argues that the black community was harmed by integration.

 Quote:

Bottom line, his attitude his attitude is instead of loving your oppressors into playing nice, that they need to create their own world.

I think the analogy applies here as well.


There's also a lot of delusions running rampant as to who or what the oppressor is. It's rarely white people, it's the attitude of "I'm lazy because the White Man keeps me down." Not even bothering to try isn't oppression. It's being comfortable in your excuses and justifications.

[quote]

He would agree with that actually.

Here is his view on the confederate flag:

"As such, the appropriate action is simply to disengage and remove oneself from the midst of evil people. However, that cannot happen because the vast majority of African people, especially African Americans, are not mature enough to accept the responsibility to control their own lives, which means to stop being dependent on white assistance. Thus, the Confederate Flag is offensive to the majority of African Americans because it is a reminder not of the evil racism of whites but of the cultural and socio-political immaturity and ineptitude of African Americans."


Yeah, so, your views might not be so different, except the "Evil" reference, which might be relevant because in his view it harms people he cares about from his perspective.

"No black man on Wall Street makes such gripes."

Slow you roll. There are many reasons that they might not gripe, and you could be right or wrong, but I wouldnt venture as to speak for them.

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#112772 - 05/12/17 05:01 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: samowens84]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 432
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
Interesting evolution of the thread. Feel like I hijacked it from the sign guy lol. oh well.


No worries, I just brought it up as a minor point to a much larger thread.

If I may ask you this though, what is the difference between a black nationalist and a white nationalist?

Why are the white nationalists the black sheep (no pun)?

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#112773 - 05/12/17 05:18 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: LoneWolf78]
samowens84 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 257
 Originally Posted By: LoneWolf78
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
Interesting evolution of the thread. Feel like I hijacked it from the sign guy lol. oh well.


No worries, I just brought it up as a minor point to a much larger thread.

If I may ask you this though, what is the difference between a black nationalist and a white nationalist?

Why are the white nationalists the black sheep (no pun)?


Thats a loaded subject that has many nuances. Any explanation I give in this thread might be a reductionist oversimplification.

However, I will take a stab at it from a marxist perspective, which I think provides insights even if I dont agree with its "solution."

A lot of it I think is social engineering to get poor working whites to forget who really fucked up the economy, and provide a convenient scapegoat (i.e. mexicans, black people, etc.) It wasnt Alan Greenspan or unscrupulous bankers faking AAA housing swapes and fraudulent housing markets,it was dem damn mexicans taking yer jobs!

Its a way to redirect rage to preserve the status quo IMO.

Thats the short version.


Edited by samowens84 (05/12/17 05:20 PM)

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#112781 - 05/13/17 12:09 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: samowens84]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 432
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
A lot of it I think is social engineering to get poor working whites to forget who really fucked up the economy, and provide a convenient scapegoat (i.e. mexicans, black people, etc.) It wasnt Alan Greenspan or unscrupulous bankers faking AAA housing swapes and fraudulent housing markets,it was dem damn mexicans taking yer jobs!


......and now for the other side of that story: We also must remember that poor working whites have never been the oppressors of any other race, hence the term poor. No less, poor working blacks were duped into believing that they couldn't get ahead in this world because Billy Bob and Bubba who lived in shacks and squalor (the trailer park ain't much different from the ghetto) somehow were a privileged class of people who got all of the breaks.

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#112785 - 05/13/17 01:55 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: LoneWolf78]
samowens84 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 257
 Originally Posted By: LoneWolf78
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
A lot of it I think is social engineering to get poor working whites to forget who really fucked up the economy, and provide a convenient scapegoat (i.e. mexicans, black people, etc.) It wasnt Alan Greenspan or unscrupulous bankers faking AAA housing swapes and fraudulent housing markets,it was dem damn mexicans taking yer jobs!


......and now for the other side of that story: We also must remember that poor working whites have never been the oppressors of any other race, hence the term poor. No less, poor working blacks were duped into believing that they couldn't get ahead in this world because Billy Bob and Bubba who lived in shacks and squalor (the trailer park ain't much different from the ghetto) somehow were a privileged class of people who got all of the breaks.



I actually agree with you, and so would many educated blacks as well. Id say the difference is that because blacks are racially seperated as well as economically, it provides a peculiar kind of clarity (although not by all, I admit) for who the enemy really is. Poor whites are handicapped by their whiteness to where they could believe that being the same race as rich whites makes their interests aligned, to where they could believe that a billiionaire could pretend solidarity with poor white folks.

Bottom line, if I may reiterate, the difference betweem black nationalism and white nationalism is that black nationalists have a more priviliged position of clarity to know who the enemy is.

(I must put in a disjoinder that this is where my agreement with Marx ends. He thinks that a violent overthrow would lead to an ideal society where the state dissolves into a cooperative society. All evidence suggests that the violence would escalate until people are desperate enough to sell their freedom for security.)

My own viewpoint is that it is up to the individual to understand true identity and freedom within a manipulated society. Even Lavey would acknowledge these kind of insights, but advocated for radical individualism instead of communism as a solution. I would cite several articles in The Devil's Notebook as support.

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#112786 - 05/13/17 02:06 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: LoneWolf78]
samowens84 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 257
 Originally Posted By: LoneWolf78
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
Like Ive said, project on me what you want.


I have not projected anything on you.

 Originally Posted By: samowens84
My view is that personal impressions of people have minimal reflections of reality.


What is reality? If you have ten people in a room you have ten different realities.

With reflection it really depends. Are you reflecting someone back at themselves, are you looking in the mirror, or are they both the same thing?

Your personal impressions certainly reflect and effect your own reality all of the time.

 Originally Posted By: samowens84
People get too focused on what is outside of them they seem to dilute whatever personal power they might possess. I generalize of course. But personal satisfaction for me has always begun with self-knowledge.


Oh, absolutely agreed. You see all of these people trying to find "God" looking everywhere but inside themselves. ;\)



Forgive me, I didnt see this post. I think it might be a quote from a previous edit. But it deserves a response.
(I edited it because I thought it was crude, defensive and less than diplomatic.)

I meant that you seem to have projected your prior experience with other people who might have taken a self-righteous route with you, and I would not blame you for being defensive, though I am not saying you are.

Your thoughts on mirroring otber people back at them is actually part of my understanding of lesser magic. People think that they want sincerity, but really, in my experience, they want familiarity. if I can make them see in me a part of themselves that they like, I find it affords me privilige with that person. It has definitly helped me survive on a few occassions.


Edited by samowens84 (05/13/17 02:13 AM)

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#112787 - 05/13/17 02:49 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: samowens84]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 926
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
People think that they want sincerity, but really, in my experience, they want familiarity. if I can make them see in me a part of themselves that they like, I find it affords me privilige with that person. It has definitly helped me survive on a few occassions.


What's sincere lies in recognition. Indeed, privilege is often the consequence of mutual ways.
_________________________
Creatură Nopții

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#112789 - 05/13/17 03:23 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: samowens84]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 432
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
I actually agree with you, and so would many educated blacks as well. Id say the difference is that because blacks are racially seperated as well as economically, it provides a peculiar kind of clarity (although not by all, I admit) for who the enemy really is. Poor whites are handicapped by their whiteness to where they could believe that being the same race as rich whites makes their interests aligned, to where they could believe that a billiionaire could pretend solidarity with poor white folks.


Now that thing on projection.... ;\)

I can to an extent see your point as most people identify with race (and the mainstream media is well aware of this fact). That is not everyone, however. Now, I will grant you that in some cases, it takes some growing up, but there does come about that lightning bolt of separation. For example, it has been said that you stop being a child the moment that you realize that eventually you will die. It is also the same principal where one realizes that just because their friends cheer them on in a night of karaoke that they will likely never be a rock star. In short what I am talking about is the realization of limitations. In my own case, and I know that by entering into this realm that much like everything else, that it becomes subjective, I realized that there were plenty of white people that did not have my best interest at heart simply because I was white. Later on in years, I also began to realize that most people are selfish and act in accordance with their own selfish interests. So, I entered into that realm of mentality without guilt. In other words, I am not looking out for a race, I am looking out for me. I am also not above learning from anyone who I feel can teach me.

 Originally Posted By: samowens84
Bottom line, if I may reiterate, the difference betweem black nationalism and white nationalism is that black nationalists have a more priviliged position of clarity to know who the enemy is.


Now that is a lot of projection right there. Also, I would then ask who that black nationalists feel is the enemy? The problem that I see with white or black nationalism is that it is identifying with the group rather than focus on the individuals within the group as everybody is different and has different needs, goals, etc. One instance that comes to mind that I will throw out here to kind of tie this back with the topic is that black men were able to vote before any woman was. So in that regard, black women may have more of a chip on their shoulders than say black men.

Getting back to black/white nationalism, I would say that there is also a lot of hypocrisy between the heads of these things when it comes to the rank and file. After all, while the heads of various organizations have a certain level of power, the trick is to get those with less power to identify with them simply based on racial identity which goes back to your point earlier on. The difference is, I am not saying that it isn't a black thing or a white thing, I am saying that it is a most people thing.

 Originally Posted By: samowens84
My own viewpoint is that it is up to the individual to understand true identity and freedom within a manipulated society. Even Lavey would acknowledge these kind of insights, but advocated for radical individualism instead of communism as a solution. I would cite several articles in The Devil's Notebook as support.


Bingo.

No two people on this planet will ever have the exact same experience. It is impossible to ever fully grasp the experience of another. At best, you can try, but even then I would say that you do not even owe that empathy to someone unless it will benefit you in some way. I do think that there are ways to manipulate the world to your liking without hurting too much. What I do, is watch the news for entertainment purposes. I am not concerned with what the "big story" that I am supposed to care about is. Because, in that case I would have to ask myself, what can I as an individual do about it. I am then reminded that one vote cancels out the vote of another. So, aside from forming an opinion, and sharing that opinion with someone else, there is little that I can do. Instead, I focus on my own life. My own immediate surroundings and can and do think of all kinds of ways that I can improve them and then put those ways to action. At the very least, maybe I am doing the world a bit of good by making myself happy and not disturbing anyone by doing so.

I don't think that our thought process on this matter is worlds apart. I think that we both understand that when you look at the cartoons portraying porch monkeys or hillbillies that it isn't the race that is being made fun of at the core. What is really being made fun of is the class that each group economically fits into. The smokescreen of racism is there to keep both of those groups at odds with each other.

I see your other response, and I thank you. The hour is late, however, so I will respond to that tomorrow.

Take care.


Edited by LoneWolf78 (05/13/17 03:26 AM)

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#112791 - 05/13/17 11:43 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: LoneWolf78]
samowens84 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 257
"Now that thing on projection.... ;\)"

Not exactly. I talked about "white nationalists" or "poor whites" but I was referring to them as a demographic, not you personally. However, I have enjoyed the personal narrative, and appreciate it. My own is that I never chose to be seperate, I was conditioned that way whether I liked it or not. At first it made me weak and vulnerable, but eventually made me stronger as I realized there was no god to rescue me. I was too well aquainted with the indifference of the world, but I consider it a gift. It has made me stronger and more self directed.


As far as who the "enemy" is, While SIN3 is no doubt right that many blacks do use it as an excuse, I have found that there are also antagonistic forces against them. Acknowledging that does not becone an excuse unless one decides to let it render them helpless. And Ive known many who do not. Although there does seem a victim/powerless narrative sold as well, and that does frustrate me.

I acknowledge that although we may disagree on some nuance, I would agree that our patterns of thought are more aligned than not. Its been enjoyable.



Edited by samowens84 (05/13/17 12:25 PM)

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#112796 - 05/13/17 11:06 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: Megatron]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2710
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Having come to the mind-blowing realization that the genders are unequal, I think that 600Cers would also agree that it is not an across-the-board advantage on either side. Each has certain advantages and disadvantages.

So what ytou think about all of this is less a judgment on either gender per se, but rather on which mix of ad/disad is more gruntling to you personally.

What bemuses me about the current fad in "transgenderism" is that it is thus nothing of the sort. Getting some mutilation surgery, pumping yourself full of the otherside hormones, and wearing th other's clothes makes no fundamental difference whatever; the person is simply grasping for a relatively few superficialities and suppressing others. The result is a caricature, whether or not it is skillful or slapstick.

Somewhere in the Bill of Rights, I guess, is one which guarantees Americans the absolute Right to make fools of themselves - and, it would seem today in the riveting national debate over who gets to pee in which bathroom - to have the nation validate you.

During my lifetime I have seen this principle invoked for live goldfish swallowing, phone booth stuffing, numbers of hula hoops kept in motion, pet rocks, fake tiger tails hanging out of automobile gas tanks, pants falling off your ass, college panty raids, conventions of those whov'e had sex on flying saucers, and some very good Elvis impersonations. Not much surprises me anymore, and I am generally tolerant as long as you don't scare the cats.
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#112802 - 05/15/17 11:49 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7079
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino


What bemuses me about the current fad in "transgenderism" is that it is thus nothing of the sort. Getting some mutilation surgery, pumping yourself full of the otherside hormones, and wearing th other's clothes makes no fundamental difference whatever;...


But it does. Look at what Manning did. The trans issue didn't even come up until he was sentenced. Obama commuted sentence thereby allowing for early release. The largest intelligence theft in our nation's history yet "she" was released; and as caveat will remain active duty, still get military benefits and all the entitlements of a soldier's potential ( Source ) .


It makes all the difference if you put on a dress, piss and moan about the treatment in prison and try to slit your wrists to seal the deal.

What would you have done in Obama's position? Especially with the 'history' to be written about his administration. The Liberal Left love this sort of thing.

#Leverage

Moving on...

White Nationalists are cooperating in lieu of the political moves being made because of racial tensions.

Some say it was due to the Church shooting in Charlotte, others that it's just another opportunity to fight the 'good fight' of American Identity.

Does gender matter in the grand scheme of that? You bet your ass it does, if the mob was made of women - I hardly think that promotes fear.



The Antifa chick may have held her ground if she owned it but she didn't. She cried victim and catered to the norm on the issue of gender, slut shamming and whether women can be just as 'bad ass' on the street.
_________________________
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#112805 - 05/15/17 01:23 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: CA
 Quote:
Look at what Manning did. The trans issue didn't even come up until he was sentenced. Obama commuted sentence thereby allowing for early release. The largest intelligence theft in our nation's history yet "she" was released; and as caveat will remain active duty, still get military benefits and all the entitlements of a soldier's potential


And also never be trusted ever again. Bitch is Snowden with fake tits, a far worse scarlet letter then "unstable transsexual". Does taking estrogen make one forget their security clearance? Anyone?

 Quote:
It makes all the difference if you put on a dress, piss and moan about the treatment in prison and try to slit your wrists to seal the deal.


So bitch is a rat that also mutilates herself to draw the sympathy of goldfish minded "liberals"... who apparently view espionage as courageous. Those who would say, "She is standing up for who she is and what she thinks is right."

 Quote:
What would you have done in Obama's position?


Meh, he had to ensure his legacy as the "Socially Concsious President".  He took similar precautions when the mexican capped the black kid that was only buying candy and fruit punch. 

Anyway... The traitor tranny had all their bullshit washed away by a pardon and can now be destigmatized just like Nixon.

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