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#112807 - 05/15/17 04:46 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6737
Loc: Virginia
What difference does any of that make? Manning will be a 'DO NOT TOUCH' private, irony at its best and at its worst - the epitome of American politics.

It's not going to fly. Mark my words, those in the ranks aren't having any of this. She will end up missing, dead, or mailed in pieces to Asange.
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#112808 - 05/15/17 04:49 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: SIN3]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2548
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
What would you have done in Obama's position?

I don't think that was an appropriate use of Presidential pardoning. Actually I am not gruntled by that power at all, because it can't help but be used preferentially for the high-profile cases: the Bradley Mannings and Patty Hearsts. "Unknown nobodys" need not apply.

I also dislike the practice of plea-bargaining: an extremely unfair arm-twist.

I don't like grand juries where the prosecution gets to have an attorney but the accused doesn't.

I really dislike the military justice system, which is strongly weighted to convict.

I don't like jury selection where attorneys can eliminate ones they don't think they can control.

I don't like "contempt of court" if the judge and/or attorneys deserve it.

Don't get me started ... Well, I guess I did get started.

 Quote:
White Nationalists ... Some say it was due to the Church shooting in Charlotte, others that it's just another opportunity to fight the 'good fight' of American Identity.

Well, if we're going to tear down statues of Robert E. Lee et al., then we'd better removed the Washington & Jefferson Memorials on the Capitol Mall, since they both owned slaves. Also better demolish the White House since it was built with slave labor. [Calling it the"White" House is flagrantly racist anyway. The replacement should be called the RedWhiteBrownBlackYellow House, or better yet just the Red House once all of North America's illegal aliens are sent back to Europe, Africa, South America, and Asia.]

Once the Gettysburg Battlefield has been sanitized of all its Confederate statues and memorials, visitors will be perplexed wondering whom the Union Army actually fought there ...
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#112813 - 05/16/17 10:09 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6737
Loc: Virginia
Preferential towards high-profile or cases involving 'women'?

Do you think the response would have been the same if Manning were a woman transitioning to a man? I have my doubts.

Our so-called 'justice system' has always been a farce. Let's just call it what it really is. The Punishment System. We are a culture of punishers. A good counter-point to those that claim we are a 'Christian Nation'. NT is out the window, most people are Old Testament all the way. Can they really call themselves Christians without accepting the lessons of Christ?


 Originally Posted By: MA
Well, if we're going to tear down statues of Robert E. Lee et al., then we'd better removed the Washington & Jefferson Memorials on the Capitol Mall, since they both owned slaves.


It's all so very ridiculous. Lobbyists have been at this game for decades to have the Confederate Monuments removed, yet it seems oh so important this decade. The question is, why?

There have always been racial tensions in this country. Even more so with an increase of migrants from not-so-friendly countries.

Statue of Liberty should be the first to go because people no longer understand what Liberty means in the U.S.
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#112815 - 05/16/17 01:28 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1159
Loc: San Diego, CA
<Quick unrequested interjection>

 Quote:
Our so-called 'justice system' has always been a farce. Let's just call it what it really is. The Punishment System. We are a culture of punishers


And???

Some don't deserve anything more. I once watched a deserving bitch (former roommate) go down, and the look on her fucking face was priceless.

She had been set up. This was made clear when many jurisdictions kicked in the door with m16's in tow. The house was Mother Superior's in Trainspotting, after all.

Hope she enjoys Las Colinas and the "minimal" conditions they keep her in. *smirks*

I'm all for old Testament styled punishment (as arfticial as it is). It keeps society in line and shady drug addicts that don't contribute locked up where they belong. Recidivism proves as much.
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#112820 - 05/17/17 04:01 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: SIN3]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2548
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Preferential towards high-profile or cases i if Manning were a woman transitioning to a man? I have my doubts.

The U.S. military has always had a romantic/medieval culture. This means that men are expected to be like Prince Valiant and women like Aleta.

It is honorable and admirable for women to behave like women, but unthinkable for a man to. Yes, political-correctness has changed the regulations to admit honosexuals and cross-pretenders, but no one's kidding anyone else.

Speaking to your question: There's a different culture about military women displaying "manly virtues": bravery, heroism, self-sacrifice, Ramnbo mission-commitment, etc. Such women are not just tolerated, but admired and respected. No one sneers at female generals and admirals; they've all earned their stars. And the point here is that I don't think you'd find many, if any military women feeling any need to pretend they're male. That wouldn't gain them any more respect - just a reputation as a wacko.

So that's the difference: Bradley Manning is regarded as an embarrassment and disgrace. A woman trying the same thing would be regarded as wacko. Caveat here that men generally can't figure out much of what women do or why, so tend to just stand back and not blunder into trouble.

As a lifelong Prince Valiant fan, I might add that Aleta got him out of many a jam by superior wisdom, much of which went right over his head. ;\)

 Quote:
Our so-called 'justice system' has always been a farce. Let's just call it what it really is. The Punishment System. We are a culture of punishers. A good counter-point to those that claim we are a 'Christian Nation'. NT is out the window, most people are Old Testament all the way. Can they really call themselves Christians without accepting the lessons of Christ?

Wasn't he the chap who said "no admittance to Heaven but through me" and "I come not to bring peace but a sword" and "don't suffer a witch to live", etc.? Then there was that witch test wherein you tied the accused up and tossed her in a river. If she floated, she was guilty and was fished out and burned. If she sank, she was innocent, but of course also drowned. \:\(


 Quote:
Statue of Liberty should be the first to go because people no longer understand what Liberty means in the U.S.

Most people aren't aware that when the SoL was originally created, she was holding broken chains. There was a row about this, because some felt it was a swipe at the U.S. history of slavery. Finally a compromise was reached in which the broken chains are lying at her feet. Of course you can't see them from a distance; you have to go to the island and look for them. You can probably Google "Statue of Liberty chains" and read the whole story & see a photo or two. Is this a great country or what?
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#112823 - 05/17/17 09:18 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6737
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Preferential towards high-profile or cases i if Manning were a woman transitioning to a man? I have my doubts.

The U.S. military has always had a romantic/medieval culture.


Thing is. Obama wasn't in the military. He seems to have had a drive to present himself as a President with a social conscience. Was the 35 year sentence too harsh? If so, why did the President deem it as much? Was it the 3 suicide attempts? The rampant letters? Media reports on struggling as a Trans woman in a male complex? Is Manning an ordinary Whistle Blower?

"Her" release today is going to be a sore spot for armed service men that call out "TRAITOR!." There doesn't appear to be loud military voice thanking Manning for her service.



 Quote:
Wasn't he the chap who said "no admittance to Heaven but through me" and "I come not to bring peace but a sword" and "don't suffer a witch poisoner to live", etc.? Then there was that witch test wherein you tied the accused up and tossed her in a river. If she floated, she was guilty and was fished out and burned. If she sank, she was innocent, but of course also drowned. \:\(



The Book of John (NT) was essentially the path. Lest we forget that 'Christ' just means (Loosely) anointed one. Esoterically, it could be something like "If you follow this path, this way, you will live a happier life. One without so much suffering and strife." Most, if not all, Eastern religions hone in on what path is the best path to take to achieve a life with the least amount of pain and suffering.

While women were traditionally the 'poisoners' that's not what the Book of Exodus (OT)is addressing. Pretty much every rendering of this religion from the Hebrews to the Muslims addresses the person that holds sway over you, drawing you away from the things you are working towards. If memory serves, the term in its native tongue was gender-neutral.

Ducking was the method used in the Malleus Maleficarum (Witches Hammer)which technically extracts the trial method from the Code of Hammurabi. You know how those witch trials panned out by the Wackados in the Middle Ages. Plenty swam to shore and were imprisoned. If you died, well your soul goes to heaven.


Anyhoot. I think today's military is a bit more PC than it was during your service. When I was at FT Sill, I noted plenty of signs that reinforced pc messages about how to treat each other. Since you get all sorts from all over the country, I'm not saying they wouldn't think a Trans person was a nut but I don't think the new Army would allow that person to be hazed or Gomer Piled.
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#112838 - 05/17/17 05:09 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: SIN3]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2548
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Was the 35 year sentence too harsh?

The whole thing was FUBAR.

Caveat that I have never met Bradley Manning or spoken or corresponded with him. So I am judging on the basis of "public information", which as we know can be highly inaccurate and incomplete.

That said, his sex issues and suicide tendencies indicate an instability and immaturity that should never have cleared him for classified information, the more so at Top Secret level, and the more so with the vast amount of such documents to which he apparently had unrestricted, unsupervised access - and as a Private First Class.

DoD screwed up by granting Manning a clearance and putting him in that job to begin with. If you give a toddler a cigarette lighter and then ignore him, should he be imprisoned for decades when you come home and find it burned to the ground? Manning was a crime waiting to happen because of his inadequate security evaluation and extremely sensitive assignment for a PFC.

So I think his consequence should have been medical/mental, not criminal (an ordinary prison sentence). However I would have found out who cleared him, and who assigned him, and who failed to supervise him, and handed all of them their asses on a plate.

By contrast Hillary does not have Manning's excuses at all. She was First Lady, Senator, Secretary of State. She knows damn well about classified information. She should be criminally prosecuted and imprisoned, period.

If you see something in classified information that you think is illegal or unethical, there are ways through channels to alarm about them. If you get stiffed by your own bureaucracy, you can also go to the judicial branch or your Senator/Representative in Congress. You don't go to Wikileaks!
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#112845 - 05/19/17 07:22 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
samowens84 Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 87
http://gettinbetter.com/dance.html

I think a lot of the problems between men and women arise from this dysfunctional interpersonal dynamic between narcissistic men and borderline women. This dynamic plays out more often in my persinal life than Id care to admit.

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#112856 - 05/22/17 11:51 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6737
Loc: Virginia
Could it be, that when he was caught that's just the card he played for leniency? I mean, it worked. He served 7 years of a 35 year sentence. It wasn't until an article broke claiming that he made contact with a counselor back in 09' to discuss gender issues. Pretty easy to fall back on the Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy in place until 2011. Meanwhile, he deals by downloading a payload of classified materials and sends it to WikiLeaks?

It all seems like a calculated Get out of Jail free card, including the email sent to his supervisor advising of the 'gender crisis' he was having. Like many young men that can't deal with military life, this was the master plan he concocted to get out. He probably didn't even think he'd be caught or that it may blow up in his face.

I've known men that wanted out and just made up a gay story to get discharged.

Mental Illness, the most accessible scapegoat. Right out of Satan's playbook.

It's rare that people are sent to a mental health hospital as their sentence. They probably thought he needed some prison time to 'man up', anyway.

Some men fair well on the inside, some fall to pieces. It's all about what's in the core.

All that leaked material did what exactly? While it got a mass of media coverage, I don't see his end game won.



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#112867 - 05/23/17 01:08 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: SIN3]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2548
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Could it be, that when he was caught that's just the card he played

If Manning had wanted a wacko discharge, there are any number of misbehaviors he could have affected to accomplish it without going to prison.

It wasn't his sex quirk that hot his sentence commuted; it was the popular perception that he had been a whistle-blower, not a traitor. Otherwise he could have sent Obama any number of pinups of himself in bra & panties and not gotten the commutation.
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#112868 - 05/23/17 10:41 AM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6737
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: MA
it was the popular perception that he had been a whistle-blower, not a traitor.


Sure but had it not been for the multiple suicide attempts and the feverishly written letters about how he's been treated as a Trans in a men's prison, I doubt it would have resulted in a commuted sentence.

In my opinion, he got morally uppity which is why he stole all that information. He wasn't built for the American Armed Forces and all the entanglements that come with it.

You're right though, he could have found any number of reasons to have himself discharged then blow the whistle. It wouldn't have had as much levity though. Plenty of discharge/veterans have stories that fall on deaf ears. I don't know that I'd be quick to dismiss all his behaviors as a sign of mental illness. Many people go to extremes to make a mark.

I think his plan just became bigger than himself and he got caught up in it. First thing he does when released? Creates an Instagram so people can follow his life as a free train wreck. He's still reaching for fame.
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#112877 - 05/23/17 03:03 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: SIN3]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2548
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
He's still reaching for fame.

We live in an age/culture of runaway narcissism, certainly facilitated by the Internet. I agree with you that Manning has found that he enjoys the limelight, and if being "shocking" is his perceived mens to it, that's what he'll be. I understand he's already been approached by book/movie exploiters, and may very well wind up making more $ from his antics than you and I in our lifetimes. As Linus once remarked in Peanuts, "There's a lesson to be learned here, but I don't know what it is."

I've known a great many successful people in my life, several of them "celebrities", and without exception they say that the greater the commercialism and exposure, the more difficult it is to hang on to your principles, your integrity.

Some like Sorry Ackerman manage to do it and thus accept a limit to their exploitation. A few others, like Sammy Davis, eventually [but not for a long time] become big enough that they can call their own shots again - as for instance Sammy's acceptance of Church of Satan membership from me despite his agent's no-no efforts. From my MindStar:

 Originally Posted By: Marilyn Monroe
Hollywood is a place where they’ll pay you a thousand dollars for a kiss and fifty cents for your soul. I know, because I turned down the first offer often enough and held out for the fifty cents.
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#112879 - 05/23/17 04:48 PM Re: Gender Equality? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6737
Loc: Virginia
Indeed. People get pretty salty about it too. When Manning looks back, that 7 year stint in the clink will pale in comparison to the life he built through controversy.

I seem to be alone in the opinion that the 'Cashe' me Outside girl', Danielle Bregolie, had a pretty good coach (Mom) and is playing the game afforded by our society. She can't even drive yet and she'll have a nice little nest egg for herself. Provided her Mother doesn't piss through it all.

People are pretty salty about that too, especially with her upcoming tour.

Before you know it, Manning will be getting 50K a gig to speak at Transgendered and Whistle Blower cons. Heh
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