Page 1 of 3 123>
Topic Options
#9934 - 06/30/08 01:49 AM Manners and Authenticity
Sinthesis Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 40
Loc: various places in New Jersey
I have had wildly changing positions throughout my life on the question of whether or not manners and ettitquette are preferable.

Early in life I absolutely refused them, on the grounds that they were empty social rituals, almost never genuinely felt by their participants. I saw them as an attempt to avoid making actual mental contact, but as the little iconoclast I was, I wanted to experience a confrontation of souls with everyone I met. I had an "I am what I am," "fart proudly" attitude.

In time I have taken up manners and niceties. I could have beter manners on this forum, but I think everyone here is ready for conflict. One side of it was cynicism toward people. I figured I might as well use manners in dealing with most people since there's not even very much to them. If I tried to connect with them I would only be disappointed.

Second would be social pragmatism. My manners are a self-serving technique to make me appear less self-serving than I am, and in order to make people feel vaguely indebted to me so that if I need something they have they are more willing to cave and give it or negotiate softer.

Also, whether it's a good thing or not, first impressions mean a lot, and perhaps there are some awesome people out there who place a little value on manners. It's possible that being completely rude, gruff, and tactless could scare them off before we had any truly meaningful exchanges. I think manners would be a small price to pay for their company.


Where do you all stand with this? Please, thank you, you're welcome, holding doors, picking up dropped objects, helping co-workers, vapid compliments...or anything that came to mind?
_________________________
accept the darkness in your self
make war against everything else

Top
#9935 - 06/30/08 04:01 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Sinthesis]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1737
Loc: New York
I think that only people who lack self confidence tend to be rude, "in your face" and impolite.

The most succesful people, who are truly self actualized are the most pleasant ones, while at the same time are the least easily influenced, and difficult to push around.
In other words, they can very politely tell someone to go fuck themselves, without actually having to say so.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#9936 - 06/30/08 04:31 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Sinthesis]
psiren Offline
pledge


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 51
Loc: Spain
Interesting question. I would say that politeness is preferable to rudeness but over-doing it is annoying. Iím polite and respectful to everyone until they donít show the same back but as for vapid compliments and the like, no, thatís not really my thing. If I compliment someone I mean it. If I have nothing nice to say, I usually keep quiet unless the person has pissed me off or asks for my opinion, in which case theyíll get an honest one.

I guess Iím naturally quite polite. I was brought up to say please and thank you so itís sort of ingrained in me. In this sense itís also a case of ĎI am what I amí. I have no problem with people who are not the same way, lack of social niceties doesnít always indicate lack of respect and Iíd much prefer someone to be blunt than falsely nice if thatís the way they communicate.

One thing that really gets my goat though is the McService industry brand of manners. The ĎHave a nice dayí crap that they are made to spew to each and every customer. Iíve worked in places that demand this from the staff and it pisses me off no end. I have been on the receiving end of many a managerial talking to because Iíd say something like ĎCheers, byeí, rather than Ďthank you, have a nice dayí, The first is a genuine response in my own way of speaking, the second feels like bile coming out of my mouth. I cannot wrap my head around the theory that people would prefer a scripted, insincere greeting to a genuine and friendly one. Maybe itís the perceived lack of manners today that has prompted this forced niceness in business, I donít know but itís fucking annoying.

Top
#9966 - 06/30/08 07:32 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Sinthesis]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Manners mean alot.
Ask your mom, girlfriend, or sister.
Good manners, and being polite will get you laid faster that being dense, rude, and inconsiderate.

The same with first impressions.
If you appear to have your shit together, you can get away with more stuff down the line.

"I cannot wrap my head around the theory that people would prefer a scripted, insincere greeting to a genuine and friendly one. Maybe itís the perceived lack of manners today that has prompted this forced niceness in business, I donít know but itís fucking annoying."
Yes, it is annoying, but its true.
People suck, and are mostly rude for no reason, but, if you are having a bad day, and the clerk is nice to you. That is what you will remember about the store.

Bottom line, having manners, will probably get you laid, use them.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#9968 - 06/30/08 07:57 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Morgan]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
I find manners to be very important. To me, a lack of them indicates a person less than average, and therefore, one that won't hold my attention for very long. I don't consider myself or the company I keep to be snobs. But if a person were in my house and simply got up to grab a beer from my fridge without asking first, I would be highly offended and would ignore them the rest of the evening. Even my best friend, who has been to my house a million times, still has the courtesy to ask if he can have a beer, use my bathroom, have seconds of the meal, and thanks me in return. I conduct myself the same way when I am a guest in his house. Even though we both know at this point, we could simply get up and grab another plate and it would be ok. I perceive someone without basic manners as a rube and probably lacking intelligence and not able to engage in a meaningful interaction with me, and therefore a waste of my time.

As to the the cookie cutter responses from retailers and such. I am not a fan of them. But nothing gets my goat more than an unscripted acknowledgement. Usually coming from an older lady or southern server as she brings me my bacon and eggs. "Here you go honey, can I get you anything else". Some hot sauce. "Well certainly, sugar". That earns an extra tip from me.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

Top
#10056 - 07/03/08 05:15 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Sinthesis]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
I had an "I am what I am," "fart proudly" attitude.


Did that get you a lot of dates?

My daddy use to tell me that would catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. As a general rule, I am nice until it is time to not be nice.

I make it a point to not be a burden on my fellow man and I generally expect the same. I dare say that I can even be empathetic to most people. However, I deal with rudeness harshly for I am a vengeful God. "When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him." I do have a small gift for the lesser magick of intimidation, and I can deliver a mighty smoting to those who would use my name in vain.

Not only can good manners get you things that your want, but they can also keep you out of the ER!
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
#10068 - 07/04/08 01:12 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
Sinthesis Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 40
Loc: various places in New Jersey
Lol no. I did not get dates, which is part of why I dropped it. I think "I am what I am" is still not bad to live by, but...I don't have to be what I am in everyone's face.
_________________________
accept the darkness in your self
make war against everything else

Top
#10099 - 07/06/08 01:55 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Sinthesis]
Xande Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Arlington, TX, USA
Personally, I see manners as little more than political correctness codified into quaint, ready-to-recite scripts, nicely edited from the press of Golden Rule Weekly straight to the gray sponges of the masses.

This assessment doesn't suggest that their usage is without warrant. Rather, using them projects a particular perception, and in my experience that particular perception is "I'm an intelligent person, and as such have mustered the necessary discipline to interact with you on an expected level of courtesy".

Of course, if using pleasantries causes you to feel as if you're somehow whoring yourself out to ingrates upon whom they're ultimately wasted, I'd examine what I consider to be my core set of values regarding human interaction. I'd caution that while you'll inevitably encounter the occasional asshole, you're far more likely to encounter far more cultured people.

I think it's far too easy to dispense blanket judgment and behave accordingly, at least from personal experience. A thank you and well-timed smile will open doors a thousand fists could not. Authenticity takes a real backseat here, as in a generic society flash always trumps substance. I'd even wager that authenticity as the root cause of civility is moot, and that by utilizing etiquette you imply that your ready-to-recite script may be lacking in genuineness, but you are still mindful of tradition and can at least acknowledge some degree of social values.

That's what's important here, in that by even parroting back accepted standards of communication you mirror one's own rigid ideals of society. The end result? Familiarity, which in this age of bogeymen is spoken gold.
_________________________
ďFaithĒ is acceptance induced by feeling in the absence of evidence or proof.

Top
#10107 - 07/06/08 10:00 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Xande]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
One of the problems with youth culture in general is that every punk walking the streets thinks they are entitled to act like a shit to everyone else who they deam 'unworthy.' In general a lot of people lack the simple civility interact with the rest of the world without unnecessary drama.

At the base level, civility is an evolutionary adaptation to prevent unnecessary bloodshed and conflict. Civility is one of the few things separating man from the other animals. It prevents us from having to establish dominance every time two strangers meet.

So, a question to the committee is in order at this point:

Do you act rudely to people who you believe are ready, willing and able to kick your ass? Why or why not?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
#10110 - 07/06/08 04:19 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
i am polite until it is not shown back,so to answer your question fist if some one is ready and willing to kick my ass you bet your ass i am rude and in their face, it is my nature.

civility only work's so far, some times their does need to be a pecking order or an act of dominance to put some one in their place.

an eye for an eye tooth for tooth.but for the most part i am polite,social,and generally nice until it is not shown back,
then i see just how far i am from the other animals.

is it natural for man to behave civil even to his enemies?,i don't belive that on bit. civility is man trying to be better then beast,man is trying to denie his roots. but to see mans true nature and not the scholar.all one must do is hurt another human or invade his territory and all that programing is gone in seconds.replaced with a very real animal instinct to defend it self and its territory

so even thought i do act civil, i see it for what it is, man trying to become something it is not. trying to distance and delude it self into thinking it's more evolved then it is.
_________________________
http://www.sintheticgraphics.com

Top
#10111 - 07/06/08 04:55 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: rob_church]
Chwan Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 2
Loc: New York
My views on this are simular to fakepropht's; I link manners to a person's overall "worth". If I don't think your manners are up to par, I equate you to a "lower class" (even if your economic status says otherwise.) I also appreciate unscripted courtesy, because I think it too is reflective of one's upbringing.
It would be safe to say that my parents are very elitist and they raised me to be like them. Because of this, I find that things people often do irritate the hell out of me: people smacking their mouths when they eat or chew gum, people who don't use their eating utensils properly, Burping without covering your mouth/excusing yourself... Sometimes I find myself shooting dirty glares at 'offenders', though I shouldn't really care. LOL!


Edited by Chwan (07/06/08 04:56 PM)
_________________________
~~I tried snorting coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.~~

Top
#10112 - 07/06/08 05:42 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Chwan]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
I like to do things like hold doors open for people, especially women, just to test their manners. If they don't even acknowledge my assistance (when sometimes they very obviously need it), I like to walk off stating in a none too quiet voice, "Rude Cunt". This has shocked many people, but I have yet to be challenged due to it. I think people must realise I was just rather bluntly pointing out their ignorance and they are not want to highlight the fact any further. Also I can come across a tad intimidating.

Obviously I don't do this at work lmao \:D

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

Top
#10117 - 07/06/08 09:26 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Mercury_Templar]
blackrose Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 6
While I definitely think good manners are important in day-to-day life, you don't want to overdo it; by overdoing it, I mean groveling. That's something my parents taught me: not to grovel or be a sycophant. And people who are rude to you, or who refuse to acknowledge you when youv'e done something nice for them - such as holding a door open - just don't deserve polite treatment.
Top
#10119 - 07/07/08 07:27 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: blackrose]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
I personally can't stand people with poor manners. Many people tend to forget them especially when drunk, but I think that if you have good manners they'll stick even when intoxicated.
I tend to be a gentleman in every situation, drunk or sober, but I have little tolerance for idiots no matter what the situation and I return their idiocy with a vengeance.
I'm normally a very nice person, but the bar idiots tend to get me pretty aggressive. I won't be the one to lash out first, but I certainly don't mind giving a painful reminder of their standing in my company, especially if uninvited.

Top
#10120 - 07/07/08 10:25 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: rob_church]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
i am polite until it is not shown back,so to answer your question fist if some one is ready and willing to kick my ass you bet your ass i am rude and in their face, it is my nature.


My point is are you polite on the front end of things? I think too many of our young 'satanist' feel entitled to walk around treating people like shit. My personal observations of this behavior is that they only seem to act this way when they believe their is no real physical danger in doing so. They certainly don't act this way around, say, some kids who look like they might be in a gang.

They are rude only to inflate their own egos but they are, at their core, cowards,
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
Page 1 of 3 123>


Moderator:  SkaffenAmtiskaw, fakepropht, TV is God, Woland, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.03 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.