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#9934 - 06/30/08 01:49 AM Manners and Authenticity
Sinthesis Offline
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Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 40
Loc: various places in New Jersey
I have had wildly changing positions throughout my life on the question of whether or not manners and ettitquette are preferable.

Early in life I absolutely refused them, on the grounds that they were empty social rituals, almost never genuinely felt by their participants. I saw them as an attempt to avoid making actual mental contact, but as the little iconoclast I was, I wanted to experience a confrontation of souls with everyone I met. I had an "I am what I am," "fart proudly" attitude.

In time I have taken up manners and niceties. I could have beter manners on this forum, but I think everyone here is ready for conflict. One side of it was cynicism toward people. I figured I might as well use manners in dealing with most people since there's not even very much to them. If I tried to connect with them I would only be disappointed.

Second would be social pragmatism. My manners are a self-serving technique to make me appear less self-serving than I am, and in order to make people feel vaguely indebted to me so that if I need something they have they are more willing to cave and give it or negotiate softer.

Also, whether it's a good thing or not, first impressions mean a lot, and perhaps there are some awesome people out there who place a little value on manners. It's possible that being completely rude, gruff, and tactless could scare them off before we had any truly meaningful exchanges. I think manners would be a small price to pay for their company.


Where do you all stand with this? Please, thank you, you're welcome, holding doors, picking up dropped objects, helping co-workers, vapid compliments...or anything that came to mind?
_________________________
accept the darkness in your self
make war against everything else

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#9935 - 06/30/08 04:01 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Sinthesis]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York
I think that only people who lack self confidence tend to be rude, "in your face" and impolite.

The most succesful people, who are truly self actualized are the most pleasant ones, while at the same time are the least easily influenced, and difficult to push around.
In other words, they can very politely tell someone to go fuck themselves, without actually having to say so.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#9936 - 06/30/08 04:31 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Sinthesis]
psiren Offline
pledge


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 51
Loc: Spain
Interesting question. I would say that politeness is preferable to rudeness but over-doing it is annoying. Iím polite and respectful to everyone until they donít show the same back but as for vapid compliments and the like, no, thatís not really my thing. If I compliment someone I mean it. If I have nothing nice to say, I usually keep quiet unless the person has pissed me off or asks for my opinion, in which case theyíll get an honest one.

I guess Iím naturally quite polite. I was brought up to say please and thank you so itís sort of ingrained in me. In this sense itís also a case of ĎI am what I amí. I have no problem with people who are not the same way, lack of social niceties doesnít always indicate lack of respect and Iíd much prefer someone to be blunt than falsely nice if thatís the way they communicate.

One thing that really gets my goat though is the McService industry brand of manners. The ĎHave a nice dayí crap that they are made to spew to each and every customer. Iíve worked in places that demand this from the staff and it pisses me off no end. I have been on the receiving end of many a managerial talking to because Iíd say something like ĎCheers, byeí, rather than Ďthank you, have a nice dayí, The first is a genuine response in my own way of speaking, the second feels like bile coming out of my mouth. I cannot wrap my head around the theory that people would prefer a scripted, insincere greeting to a genuine and friendly one. Maybe itís the perceived lack of manners today that has prompted this forced niceness in business, I donít know but itís fucking annoying.

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#9966 - 06/30/08 07:32 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Sinthesis]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Manners mean alot.
Ask your mom, girlfriend, or sister.
Good manners, and being polite will get you laid faster that being dense, rude, and inconsiderate.

The same with first impressions.
If you appear to have your shit together, you can get away with more stuff down the line.

"I cannot wrap my head around the theory that people would prefer a scripted, insincere greeting to a genuine and friendly one. Maybe itís the perceived lack of manners today that has prompted this forced niceness in business, I donít know but itís fucking annoying."
Yes, it is annoying, but its true.
People suck, and are mostly rude for no reason, but, if you are having a bad day, and the clerk is nice to you. That is what you will remember about the store.

Bottom line, having manners, will probably get you laid, use them.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#9968 - 06/30/08 07:57 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Morgan]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
I find manners to be very important. To me, a lack of them indicates a person less than average, and therefore, one that won't hold my attention for very long. I don't consider myself or the company I keep to be snobs. But if a person were in my house and simply got up to grab a beer from my fridge without asking first, I would be highly offended and would ignore them the rest of the evening. Even my best friend, who has been to my house a million times, still has the courtesy to ask if he can have a beer, use my bathroom, have seconds of the meal, and thanks me in return. I conduct myself the same way when I am a guest in his house. Even though we both know at this point, we could simply get up and grab another plate and it would be ok. I perceive someone without basic manners as a rube and probably lacking intelligence and not able to engage in a meaningful interaction with me, and therefore a waste of my time.

As to the the cookie cutter responses from retailers and such. I am not a fan of them. But nothing gets my goat more than an unscripted acknowledgement. Usually coming from an older lady or southern server as she brings me my bacon and eggs. "Here you go honey, can I get you anything else". Some hot sauce. "Well certainly, sugar". That earns an extra tip from me.
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#10056 - 07/03/08 05:15 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Sinthesis]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
I had an "I am what I am," "fart proudly" attitude.


Did that get you a lot of dates?

My daddy use to tell me that would catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. As a general rule, I am nice until it is time to not be nice.

I make it a point to not be a burden on my fellow man and I generally expect the same. I dare say that I can even be empathetic to most people. However, I deal with rudeness harshly for I am a vengeful God. "When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him." I do have a small gift for the lesser magick of intimidation, and I can deliver a mighty smoting to those who would use my name in vain.

Not only can good manners get you things that your want, but they can also keep you out of the ER!
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#10068 - 07/04/08 01:12 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
Sinthesis Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 40
Loc: various places in New Jersey
Lol no. I did not get dates, which is part of why I dropped it. I think "I am what I am" is still not bad to live by, but...I don't have to be what I am in everyone's face.
_________________________
accept the darkness in your self
make war against everything else

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#10099 - 07/06/08 01:55 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Sinthesis]
Xande Offline
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Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Arlington, TX, USA
Personally, I see manners as little more than political correctness codified into quaint, ready-to-recite scripts, nicely edited from the press of Golden Rule Weekly straight to the gray sponges of the masses.

This assessment doesn't suggest that their usage is without warrant. Rather, using them projects a particular perception, and in my experience that particular perception is "I'm an intelligent person, and as such have mustered the necessary discipline to interact with you on an expected level of courtesy".

Of course, if using pleasantries causes you to feel as if you're somehow whoring yourself out to ingrates upon whom they're ultimately wasted, I'd examine what I consider to be my core set of values regarding human interaction. I'd caution that while you'll inevitably encounter the occasional asshole, you're far more likely to encounter far more cultured people.

I think it's far too easy to dispense blanket judgment and behave accordingly, at least from personal experience. A thank you and well-timed smile will open doors a thousand fists could not. Authenticity takes a real backseat here, as in a generic society flash always trumps substance. I'd even wager that authenticity as the root cause of civility is moot, and that by utilizing etiquette you imply that your ready-to-recite script may be lacking in genuineness, but you are still mindful of tradition and can at least acknowledge some degree of social values.

That's what's important here, in that by even parroting back accepted standards of communication you mirror one's own rigid ideals of society. The end result? Familiarity, which in this age of bogeymen is spoken gold.
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ďFaithĒ is acceptance induced by feeling in the absence of evidence or proof.

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#10107 - 07/06/08 10:00 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Xande]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
One of the problems with youth culture in general is that every punk walking the streets thinks they are entitled to act like a shit to everyone else who they deam 'unworthy.' In general a lot of people lack the simple civility interact with the rest of the world without unnecessary drama.

At the base level, civility is an evolutionary adaptation to prevent unnecessary bloodshed and conflict. Civility is one of the few things separating man from the other animals. It prevents us from having to establish dominance every time two strangers meet.

So, a question to the committee is in order at this point:

Do you act rudely to people who you believe are ready, willing and able to kick your ass? Why or why not?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#10110 - 07/06/08 04:19 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
i am polite until it is not shown back,so to answer your question fist if some one is ready and willing to kick my ass you bet your ass i am rude and in their face, it is my nature.

civility only work's so far, some times their does need to be a pecking order or an act of dominance to put some one in their place.

an eye for an eye tooth for tooth.but for the most part i am polite,social,and generally nice until it is not shown back,
then i see just how far i am from the other animals.

is it natural for man to behave civil even to his enemies?,i don't belive that on bit. civility is man trying to be better then beast,man is trying to denie his roots. but to see mans true nature and not the scholar.all one must do is hurt another human or invade his territory and all that programing is gone in seconds.replaced with a very real animal instinct to defend it self and its territory

so even thought i do act civil, i see it for what it is, man trying to become something it is not. trying to distance and delude it self into thinking it's more evolved then it is.
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#10111 - 07/06/08 04:55 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: rob_church]
Chwan Offline
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Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 2
Loc: New York
My views on this are simular to fakepropht's; I link manners to a person's overall "worth". If I don't think your manners are up to par, I equate you to a "lower class" (even if your economic status says otherwise.) I also appreciate unscripted courtesy, because I think it too is reflective of one's upbringing.
It would be safe to say that my parents are very elitist and they raised me to be like them. Because of this, I find that things people often do irritate the hell out of me: people smacking their mouths when they eat or chew gum, people who don't use their eating utensils properly, Burping without covering your mouth/excusing yourself... Sometimes I find myself shooting dirty glares at 'offenders', though I shouldn't really care. LOL!


Edited by Chwan (07/06/08 04:56 PM)
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#10112 - 07/06/08 05:42 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Chwan]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
I like to do things like hold doors open for people, especially women, just to test their manners. If they don't even acknowledge my assistance (when sometimes they very obviously need it), I like to walk off stating in a none too quiet voice, "Rude Cunt". This has shocked many people, but I have yet to be challenged due to it. I think people must realise I was just rather bluntly pointing out their ignorance and they are not want to highlight the fact any further. Also I can come across a tad intimidating.

Obviously I don't do this at work lmao \:D

M.'.T.'.
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MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
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#10117 - 07/06/08 09:26 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Mercury_Templar]
blackrose Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 6
While I definitely think good manners are important in day-to-day life, you don't want to overdo it; by overdoing it, I mean groveling. That's something my parents taught me: not to grovel or be a sycophant. And people who are rude to you, or who refuse to acknowledge you when youv'e done something nice for them - such as holding a door open - just don't deserve polite treatment.
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#10119 - 07/07/08 07:27 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: blackrose]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
I personally can't stand people with poor manners. Many people tend to forget them especially when drunk, but I think that if you have good manners they'll stick even when intoxicated.
I tend to be a gentleman in every situation, drunk or sober, but I have little tolerance for idiots no matter what the situation and I return their idiocy with a vengeance.
I'm normally a very nice person, but the bar idiots tend to get me pretty aggressive. I won't be the one to lash out first, but I certainly don't mind giving a painful reminder of their standing in my company, especially if uninvited.

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#10120 - 07/07/08 10:25 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: rob_church]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
i am polite until it is not shown back,so to answer your question fist if some one is ready and willing to kick my ass you bet your ass i am rude and in their face, it is my nature.


My point is are you polite on the front end of things? I think too many of our young 'satanist' feel entitled to walk around treating people like shit. My personal observations of this behavior is that they only seem to act this way when they believe their is no real physical danger in doing so. They certainly don't act this way around, say, some kids who look like they might be in a gang.

They are rude only to inflate their own egos but they are, at their core, cowards,
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#10126 - 07/07/08 11:57 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
Xande Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Arlington, TX, USA
Agreed. Cowardice typically manifests itself by means of the inversion of its core, quickly multiplying into plastic venom thrown like silly string in the direction of perceived inferiors. Self-deceit is never productive, and the masses of sheep in wolves' clothing soon realize upon stepping out of the house they're horribly overdressed.

They'll never hurl this vitriol in the face of one who they can see possesses far greater physical faculties than they. No, this isn't that oft mentioned sense of self-preservation kicking in, but rather the unspoken knowledge that their cheap facade has no choice but to crumble under even slight scrutiny.

On another note, using malice as the cornerstone for conversation is in my opinion highly unsatanic , as forcing the undeserved into a defensive position(or inflicting genuine mental harm) is a perversion of the sense of justice we claim to so acutely possess. Acting on assumption without a factual base in reality makes you no better than the hordes of mystics you claim to despise.
_________________________
ďFaithĒ is acceptance induced by feeling in the absence of evidence or proof.

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#10127 - 07/08/08 01:30 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
yes that does seem to be the case fist,like the small dog, its very easy to be tough when your on the other side of the fence.

but in their defense to equate courage to picking a fight with a gang is rather silly as 4 or 3 on 1 no matter what your size you are going to be fucked up.so call it cowardice i call it intelligence, do you equate courage to picking a fight with a gang fist?

to defend your self when attacked,insulted,or being treated like a bitch that is courage. to start a fight with a gang that is just down right stupidity.


when you enter an argument with some one in real life one must do so expecting physical violence. and i know what i am capable of and expect this of my enemies.

that is why when i have to go bang on my neighbours door to keep the noise down or crank some six feet under till i cant hear my self scream because of some ones music is cranked or any time i have to get in some ones face ,im shaking almost twitching.one because i am mad and two because i am scared.

who knows how many people are in their, what weapons are available ,what their current intoxication level is ect.. when i bang on a door,tell some one to fuck off thats being rude or even politely ask a parent letting his kids play on my lawn to play by their own house as their screaming annoys me, i expect a fight, so my body is ready for it. all my life any confrontation no matter how minor the reason,i have always been shaking and always expect a fight...but in knowing that i still do it.

the Internet has made people think that because they can just argue,insult,mock or be rude to others, then just turn off their pcs,and then they are safe with no physical repercussion.

that is why i think they act this way fist.
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#10128 - 07/08/08 02:08 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
blackrose Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 6
I tend to agree; I have met a lot of the younger Satanists, some of whom, unfortunately, tend to cop an arrogant attitude. This makes a poor impression regarding what Satanism is all about. Being rude and/or arrogant is not an example of Satanism; rather, it's an example of being ignorant, and it feeds into the negative stereotype that mainstream folks have in mind when they think of us. In my opinion, although we Satanists shouldn't put on airs, we should strive for a well-mannered demeanor.
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#10132 - 07/08/08 05:22 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Mercury_Templar]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
LOL. You sound like me. (Mercuryy Templar in case you're not paying attention). I also like to hold open doors for people, although I found in the US when I visited that men would try to beat me to the door and would almost hip and shoulder me out of the way to get there first (manners being redundant if you have to be pushy to use them).

But overall, I find being polite and friendly to strangers easy and unscripted, right up until they are rude to me, then I find being a very rude cunt myself very easy too.

My favourite saying when people (especially people older than me) are rude, is "Didn't your mother teach you any manners"?

Now picture me, heavily tattood and a bit low class looking, having impecible manners and asking an older more affluent looking person about their Mum teaching them manners? I've had snorts and guffaws of laughter from other people watching in shops when I do this.

Driving is a time when I find good manners most important. I always let people in and think about how I can help others driving experience, when I'm on the road.

I'm patient and willing to wait my turn and I find in return, I always get the best parks and my lane always goes faster, LOL. A bit of karma I think (well cause and effect anyway).

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#11255 - 09/06/08 11:06 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
memphischick Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 27
Loc: Memphis, Tennessee
I am polite until you fuck me over. I was told about 2 years ago that I let people walk all over me (which I did). Until I grew a backbone. Mainly my family wanted to control my life and I am a 26 year old woman with 3 kids. Anyway, I find that when you are rude for no reason, you get nowhere. I am a nice person and will help anyone until I get no respect.
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#12250 - 10/05/08 09:56 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
BloodHorn Offline
member


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 131
Loc: Stockbridge Ga
manners is a question of who he person is thats my opion plain nand simple.
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Hail The Swords Of Darkness

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#12262 - 10/06/08 10:21 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: BloodHorn]
BloodHorn Offline
member


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 131
Loc: Stockbridge Ga
Sorry who the person is..sorry about the typo.
_________________________
Fuck You And Your Thoughts, I Have My own
Hail The Swords Of Darkness

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#12295 - 10/06/08 08:03 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: BloodHorn]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
That whole sentence is a typo. Manners is not capitalized. Missing a t in he. A period after is. Capital t and an apostrophe s in thats. Missing an in in opion. Minus the n in nand.
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#14031 - 11/07/08 02:47 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
There's an old saying, "Satan is always a gentleman."

It 's counterproductive to come into situations being belligerant until one knows that belligerance is the only option. It does no harm to be cordial (not kissing ass, but treating another with a modicum of respect), so long as the other individual responds in kind. You can still have a spirited debate with someone, you can always agree to disagree, and you never know what you might be able to learn from someone if they feel they can open up to you. You might be cataloging their every word in your mind to use against them later if needed, but people tend to respond well to acceptance and exchange.

If a person comes at me with an attitude, I know that one of two things is going to happen. Either he and I are in for a hell of a confrontation or I need to diffuse the situation and turn it to my advantage. You get a lot more out of the second option, even though you might want to smash his face in.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#15230 - 12/01/08 07:14 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
spiderbreeder Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
I think it pays to be initially courteous to whomever I encounter,but if the courtesy isn't returned, I brush them immediately. I started off being a very angry young lady, getting off on being obnoxious, and getting into a lot of bad situations because of it, but getting older has made me realise that a rude, intimidating approach only registers with other people that show the same qualities, and I can't extract anything of any substance out of them that would benefit me in any way,plus ,being pleasant until there is a really good reason not to requires less emotional energy- playing rude and evil can be quite draining....
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#16404 - 12/17/08 07:22 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Fist]
satanicfly87 Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Thomson, Georgia
I think that in todays society, unfortunately, most boundaries have been obscured. For example: I am a very nice and polite person, at least, I try to be. I am also a very blunt person which is sometimes mistaken for rudeness. A lot of people call me out on it and I try to explain myself, after that initial explanation, I don't care to explain myself any further.

And I totally agree with First; some satanists feel the automatic need to be in *BITCH* mode 24/7. It just isn't necessary and it paints a picture of a satanist that I personally don't want to deal with. True enough, some people deserve to run head into that mode sometimes, but in general, it is not needed.
_________________________
"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven" -J. Milton, "Paradise Lost."

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#16442 - 12/18/08 12:55 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: satanicfly87]
HypnotizedHill Offline
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Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 12
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: satanicfly87
I am also a very blunt person which is sometimes mistaken for rudeness.


Bluntness can be mistaken for rudeness all the time. For me, being blunt is being extremely honest. Honesty is a sign of respect for proper communication. If others despise bluntness then they must despise honesty. Although, some people can not handle the truth.
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"You are the church, I am the steeple, when we fuck we are all God's people!" - Marilyn Manson

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#16443 - 12/18/08 01:13 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: HypnotizedHill]
blastbeast666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 30
You may think that bluntness helps with the truth, bnut when talking to many different typs of people bluntness is not the easiest to get your point across.

You and I both know that bluntness can be a sign of respect, but if talking to a different crowd of people that you know nothing of then bluntness can be taken as rudeness. Taken straight from Satanicfly87 the rudeness if puten to harshly can just end up "bad".
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The burning heart of life is all man shall ever know, never more never less.

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#16485 - 12/18/08 07:21 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: blastbeast666]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
People tend to forget that language is a tool and one can use it differently according the need or a desired result.

At times it doesn't help to try to get your point across in a polite manner or even an articulate well-constructed manner. Some people are so stuck into a pattern that they can't or refuse to see beyond it. So whispering to the river might not do much. Instead you pick up a big rock and throw it in. That will, at least, seriously disturb the water and in time, it either continues to flow, ignoring the rock or it finds a different direction. Sometimes you might completely stop the flow but such is life, annihilation is a part of it.

This place is a forum so it's always a matter of one opinion versus another. Truth is of no importance, it's a battle of memes. And only the strong survive. Bluntness is a nice approach, it goes directly towards the point that needs to be adressed and cuts out the whole irrelevant shitchat. Rudeness might also be a good approach. After all this is a satanic environment and predators tend to play in a violent manner at times. Only the prey dislikes that and flees as they are mentally instructed to do. That's darwinian selection in practice. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and even if your argument is weak, it being ripped apart, doesn't imply a person needs to feel ripped apart. It's an opportunity to weed out the weakness and strengthen your arguments. Adapt or die, again, such is life.

In general I only put effort in my replies when they I feel the subject or opinion deserves it. I do that here and in real life. I'm often blunt just because I don't like wasting time with trivialities that are just that and prefer to argue at a decent level. I'm rude when I feel it is needed or when the opinion or argument isn't worth more than that. The lowest form of respect I have for people is totally ignoring them. I do that with the majority in real life.

If you stop wondering about what the crowd needs and how they feel, you can begin thinking about what the argument needs. That's when you might get somewhere.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (12/18/08 07:28 PM)
Edit Reason: added stuff

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#16489 - 12/18/08 07:58 PM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Amen brother.

There is no 'one size fits all' way to act. Do you people have no concept of lesser magic whatsoever?
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#16507 - 12/19/08 04:37 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
 Quote:
If you stop wondering about what the crowd needs and how they feel, you can begin thinking about what the argument needs. That's when you might get somewhere.


When talking to a large crowd you actually are testing one of your capabilities of being a 'leader'. Language on itself is a very powerfull tool. But if used correctly its power increases.
If I'm not mistaking, didn't the "art of war" dedicate a whole chapter on it? Or didn't it mention it somewhere?

Now when talking to a large crowd you at first must know the general ideas that circulate within most peoples minds about a certain subject and act to it. If you are a very good speaker you can actually put your ideas within their minds even tough they are contradicting zith their opinions. It only depends on how you choose your words. Things as bluntness and being rude can be used in a subtle way to put more raw power behind your ideas. But when you speak to a person personnaly it isn't adviced for using it. You achieve more by acting friendly in the face and being rude afterwards of being rude in a subtle way.


Edited by Dimitri (12/19/08 04:38 AM)
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#16509 - 12/19/08 04:58 AM Re: Manners and Authenticity [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course when you speak to a large crowd you use a technique conform to your intention. The argument in this case will be subject to will. You can be nice, hard, blunt, bend truth or just instill an 'us vs them' which is mostly the best trick to get them on your side. Nice examples are speeches of leaders of today or even of the past, like Hitler or Goebbels. Large crowds require some notion of propaganda.

Individually you can use whatever technique you see fit. I don't think you need to be nice and subtle to get a point across. Most people aren't that different from children and submit to authority or rely heavily on what others think of them. You overpower them and they will borrow your arguments. Of course, they'll change ideas again when being confronted by the next authority. To some that might matter but if you classify people in a 'worthy' and 'unworthy' manner, who cares?

On a forum it is purely about the argument. Therefor I find the best approach to use whatever the argument needs. Even totally crushing to get rid of the shit is valid. Like I said, it's memetic warfare and as long as an argument is solid or strong enough, it is valuable. The moment it fails, one can look at why it fails and improve.

D.

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